SHTF?

dbradgriffith · Jul 7, 2013

I know this means different things to different people. But what could we really do if something truly paradigm altering were to happen. I know many of you are military trained and lets face facts, that makes you far more mentally able to handle something like this. As for me, I would simply be looking to get the people I care about to safety, if such a thing exists at that point. I suppose my question is simply this: I don't have enough land for farming, or money to actually prepare for a true worst case scenario. So what the hell do I do if the S really HTF? If the infrastructure collapsed, I could keep my family safe from a direct threat for a while, but not indefinitely. I like most of you probably, went through Katrina. Waveland was the wild west overnight. To be completely honest, that is what started my preparedness. It was fascinating to see how quickly people turned into scumbags. Anyway, I am ranting. What could someone with no real training nor the resources to build a sustainable stronghold really hope to do?

Ijaw · Jul 7, 2013

It's not going to be short term since the entire country or the world is falling apart. Storing supplies to last 90 days will reduce the risk on going out to "forage" for them in the apocalypse. A get out of dodge bag or emergency kit, whatever you want to call them, keep them handy. They will not ensure your safety but they'll better the odds. Not knowing where you're going will get you killed. Having a plan will better your odds to stay alive. Never reveal your shelter by putting a big SOS sign on it. Remember that emergency services have dissolved. You'll attract crowds that will probably plea for your supplies or will try to steal it from you. People are going to be hungry and thirsty and cannot be trusted. When you first meet them, they are either going to mug you for what you have or, even worse, kill you. Be prepared when meeting other humans, if you run into them :noes:

you run into them on your own terms.

LACamper · Jul 7, 2013

First, go read lights out. While the story is a bit farfetched it is a good example of how a subdivision can survive while an individual can't. Get to know your neighbors.

Stockpile some food and ammo. Have a decent vehicle that can get you out of dodge if its a localized problem. Have a list of places to go and know how to get there without GPS or interstates.
Basic camping gear is handy in case you can't get there in a day. Water purifier is a good idea... You can live for days with no food but you need clean water!

dixiejarhead · Jul 7, 2013

SHTF can be many things. The best thing you can prepare is your mindset. I see far too often people obsess over it and ruin their lives over it, It can drive you nuts for sure. I have several former friends that this happened to...

Have some basics stored just like an extended hurricane kit. Try to meet others of like mind and work out a plan. People in this country, including "gun" people are very selfish individuals. It will take time. Been 25 plus years for me to have 3 real people I can count on...

Even family falls into that paradigm unfortunately. I would also get and keep a valid passport ready just in case. Many people assume that if things are bad here, they will be worse elsewhere. I can tell you for a fact that is a bad assumption...

In the meantime, continue to live your life, enjoy every moment.

For food preps - Beans and Rice in a 5 gallon bucket in mylar will go a long ways...

Foraging - well if it is a long term situation, the entire population out there foraging will wipe out all the wildlife within a year. I wouldn't count on doing that. Fishing would be far better, and quieter than hunting...

As for making the best of what you have where you are, there is some good information over at www.bayouprepper.com on sustainability.

SpeedRacer · Jul 7, 2013

First and foremost IMO, don't bother stockpiling anything until you have the means to protect it. Reliable guns, ammo, the skills to use them effectively and the mindset to do so without hesitation or guilt.

For every one person that prepares, there's probably 10,000 that don't. If you think they're gonna just give you a high five, congratulate you on your stockpile and move on, you're sadly mistaken. And if you think that's only gonna be a problem with cities and thugs, that's another mistake. Desperate men render desperate deeds...

JBE · Jul 7, 2013

SpeedRacer said:
First and foremost IMO, don't bother stockpiling anything until you have the means to protect it. Reliable guns, ammo, the skills to use them effectively and the mindset to do so without hesitation or guilt.

And to build on this, take a basic first aid and CPR class AT THE MINIMUM and keep a stocked aid bag handy - doctors, nurses, paramedics and medications will be at a premium if a SHTF event would happen.

bravo3 · Jul 7, 2013

Go modular with your bags. I have a truck bag which is a GHB, a 72 hour bag, and an INCH bag. Food provisions should be at the top of your list, I believe leaving your home is last resort. Train with your firearms, and have a plan with your family in case of something happening when you are away from each other. Standardize your calibers of weapons, and make sure whatever weapon is your SHTF weapon is common enough that you have or can find spare parts.

Coonie · Jul 7, 2013

The thought has crossed my mind, and it's one of many reasons I chose to move along the Shreveport area. Rural habitat where city folks are afraid to dwell. Hog populations through TX and LA put some meat on the hoof. Snakes will start looking tasty on the grill. Fishing is available in all directions. Everything's lush and growing.

dbradgriffith · Jul 7, 2013

I can use my weapons well enough. And if it's my kids (or my wife and I who protect them) lives are on the line, I'll deal with the guilt later. I am not saying that I can remove guilt all together, but I will not fail to protect my family. Ask anyone who knows me at all and they will tell u the same. I live just outside of the stem is buffer zone. So plenty of greenery and wildlife really. I have family and yes all of the family can be trusted. We argue, but I can assure u that we will work together to stay alive. As for the "get to know your neighbors" comment above, I live in a neighborhood where many houses are rented and the ones nearest me are just weekend homes. So, with the types of renters that pass through, my first plan is to get out and head to my brother's place. It is roughly a tenth of a mile away and my brother and I have always worked well together. Plus he has 4 kids to protect to my two. From there though, I don't really have a set out plan. Get to the rest of our family in the country I suppose. We all grew up hunting and my extended family own chickens and goats and whatnot. So I guess we stand as good a chance as any really.

Nomad.2nd · Jul 7, 2013

First of all what is this "SHTF" like it's going to be some "Katrina X10 scinario!?!"

Secondly lets look at something even as bad as Katrian:

99.998% of the time, 30 days worth of food is PLENTY for you and yours. Yes you need some other things such as water and to deal with the Hot/cold.

And as much as we like guns, a Sub $200 pump 12 guage and S&W model 10 should be enough.
Sure occurrences of the last 6 months show why it's smart to have plenty of ammo put back, but I carried a SAW and 600-800 rounds (Full auto, beltfed) in Iraq, and I never needed ammo reesupply.
If you have 1K rifle ammo and 500 of pistol... you'll get shot before you use it all in combat.

I could get by for a month on a case of MRE's and a couple jerrycans of water. I'd stink, and I wouldn't be happy, but I'd be alive.

NOW: Lets look at "SHTF":
It is MUCH MORE LIKELY that a 'personal SHTF' will occur, than regional or country wide.
What are these:

Job loss, illness, house fire, etc....

Prepare for THOSE first.

That said, there are many things which cover many concerns.

A line I use again and again is:

No matter what happens tomorrow,i want to eat, take a shower, and have a safe place to sleep.

I don't care if it's job loss, Katrina, or little green men from Mars.

(Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy "End of the World' fiction, zombie movies... Heck, I have a DEGREE in Emergency Management!)

But almost ANYONE above starvation level existence can put back 30 days of food.
If you don't drink 2 liter bottles, you know someone who does, if your reading here you likely have atleast a pump shotgun....

I'd say getting out of debt, keeping your car in good repair and over 1/2 full and simple things like that should be of a higher priority.

Sorry I'm not being all tactacool....

troy_mclure · Jul 7, 2013

SpeedRacer said:
First and foremost IMO, don't bother stockpiling anything until you have the means to protect it. Reliable guns, ammo, the skills to use them effectively and the mindset to do so without hesitation or guilt.

For every one person that prepares, there's probably 10,000 that don't. If you think they're gonna just give you a high five, congratulate you on your stockpile and move on, you're sadly mistaken. And if you think that's only gonna be a problem with cities and thugs, that's another mistake. Desperate men render desperate deeds...

me. recent financial hardships have reduced my stock of emergency foods and ammo. if things do get squirrely and i cant make it to ohio(my parents property is right at wayne natl forest) im going to have to become a predator of preppers to survive. fortunately most are either poorly armed, poorly trained, or both.

troy_mclure · Jul 7, 2013

Nomad said:
but I carried a SAW and 600-800 rounds (Full auto, beltfed) in Iraq, and I never needed ammo reesupply.
If you have 1K rifle ammo and 500 of pistol... you'll get shot before you use it all in combat.

.

lucky! i went thru at least 50,000rds of .50bmg, and we rarely were able to keep our saws and m240s with a combat load. heck i was lucky to keep 3 full mags with my m4.

Nomad.2nd · Jul 7, 2013

troy_mclure said:
lucky! i went thru at least 50,000rds of .50bmg, and we rarely were able to keep our saws and m240s with a combat load. heck i was lucky to keep 3 full mags with my m4.

Didn't mean the whole deployment, meant any action... I doubt any Bayoushooter members are going to endure deployment length unrest....

returningliberty · Jul 7, 2013

Nomad said:
Didn't mean the whole deployment, meant any action... I doubt any Bayoushooter members are going to endure deployment length unrest....

You never know. Let's assume a real Science Fiction type SHTF scenario: EMP from a rogue terrorist nation or a solar storm big enough to fry the power grid (That one actually Has happened and will happen again, eventually).

Power grid goes out: all the transformers are either shorted out or burn, causing large scale fires in cities and some rural areas. There aren't enough transformers in reserve to replace them all, and manufacturing NEW ones could take 2 years or even more. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/15/business/energy-environment/electric-industry-runs-transformer-replacement-test.html?_r=0.

So lets assume the power goes out late at night, weird auroras in the air. Nothing works, no power, no cell phones, radios couldn't get through the ionized atmosphere. NOTHING. If you wanted to prepare for something like that, you'd need a 2 year plan: what you're going to eat, where you're going to be, how you're planning on getting there (alive), how you're going to survive if you make it, etc. It's a great premise for a Sci Fi story. Kind of like this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0765356864

dixiejarhead · Jul 7, 2013

Nomad said:
First of all what is this "SHTF" like it's going to be some "Katrina X10 scinario!?!"

Secondly lets look at something even as bad as Katrian:

99.998% of the time, 30 days worth of food is PLENTY for you and yours. Yes you need some other things such as water and to deal with the Hot/cold.

And as much as we like guns, a Sub $200 pump 12 guage and S&W model 10 should be enough.
Sure occurrences of the last 6 months show why it's smart to have plenty of ammo put back, but I carried a SAW and 600-800 rounds (Full auto, beltfed) in Iraq, and I never needed ammo reesupply.
If you have 1K rifle ammo and 500 of pistol... you'll get shot before you use it all in combat.

I could get by for a month on a case of MRE's and a couple jerrycans of water. I'd stink, and I wouldn't be happy, but I'd be alive.

NOW: Lets look at "SHTF":
It is MUCH MORE LIKELY that a 'personal SHTF' will occur, than regional or country wide.
What are these:

Job loss, illness, house fire, etc....

Prepare for THOSE first.

That said, there are many things which cover many concerns.

A line I use again and again is:

No matter what happens tomorrow,i want to eat, take a shower, and have a safe place to sleep.

I don't care if it's job loss, Katrina, or little green men from Mars.

(Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy "End of the World' fiction, zombie movies... Heck, I have a DEGREE in Emergency Management!)

But almost ANYONE above starvation level existence can put back 30 days of food.
If you don't drink 2 liter bottles, you know someone who does, if your reading here you likely have atleast a pump shotgun....

I'd say getting out of debt, keeping your car in good repair and over 1/2 full and simple things like that should be of a higher priority.

Sorry I'm not being all tactacool....

Wise words here. Mindset and basic needs should be the priority. If you cannot take it with you, it's excess in reality... Bugging in works most of the time for the first engagement. If you're foolish enough to stay, and they come back (which they will if they attack you in the first place...) then I hope to God you have an army at your disposal or a a fortress that will make the masada green with envy....

dixiejarhead · Jul 7, 2013

troy_mclure said:
me. recent financial hardships have reduced my stock of emergency foods and ammo. if things do get squirrely and i cant make it to ohio(my parents property is right at wayne natl forest) im going to have to become a predator of preppers to survive. fortunately most are either poorly armed, poorly trained, or both.

Bad Kharma. I hope you make it without resorting to that mindset.

dixiejarhead · Jul 7, 2013

returningliberty said:
You never know. Let's assume a real Science Fiction type SHTF scenario: EMP from a rogue terrorist nation or a solar storm big enough to fry the power grid (That one actually Has happened and will happen again, eventually).

Power grid goes out: all the transformers are either shorted out or burn, causing large scale fires in cities and some rural areas. There aren't enough transformers in reserve to replace them all, and manufacturing NEW ones could take 2 years or even more. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/15/business/energy-environment/electric-industry-runs-transformer-replacement-test.html?_r=0.

So lets assume the power goes out late at night, weird auroras in the air. Nothing works, no power, no cell phones, radios couldn't get through the ionized atmosphere. NOTHING. If you wanted to prepare for something like that, you'd need a 2 year plan: what you're going to eat, where you're going to be, how you're planning on getting there (alive), how you're going to survive if you make it, etc. It's a great premise for a Sci Fi story. Kind of like this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0765356864

Watching too many movies and reading too many books. Real life = dog eat dog in this country. UNLESS you already have a full scale retreat and the means to defend it (I mean at LEAST platoon strength EXPERIENCED gun toters) 24/7/365 you are in deep doo doo. We all will be. Some will last longer than others though by being not only stronger, but smarter....

Nomad.2nd · Jul 7, 2013

returningliberty said:
You never know. Let's assume a real Science Fiction type SHTF scenario: EMP from a rogue terrorist nation or a solar storm big enough to fry the power grid (That one actually Has happened and will happen again, eventually).

Power grid goes out: all the transformers are either shorted out or burn, causing large scale fires in cities and some rural areas. There aren't enough transformers in reserve to replace them all, and manufacturing NEW ones could take 2 years or even more. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/15/business/energy-environment/electric-industry-runs-transformer-replacement-test.html?_r=0.

So lets assume the power goes out late at night, weird auroras in the air. Nothing works, no power, no cell phones, radios couldn't get through the ionized atmosphere. NOTHING. If you wanted to prepare for something like that, you'd need a 2 year plan: what you're going to eat, where you're going to be, how you're planning on getting there (alive), how you're going to survive if you make it, etc. It's a great premise for a Sci Fi story. Kind of like this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0765356864

Oh, absolutely... There could even be a natural event like the EMP from solar in 1856ish.... It even melted telegraph wires.

But again... What are the odds?

You MIGHT die in a car crash tomorrow... But you play they odds and drive anyway.

I'm actually going to spend a few dollars and ground my metal building.... But the odds are insanely against it happening.
And, you'd be better off with a 5 year plan. 2 leaves too much depending on getting a good harvest right off depending on the time of year.

Still not necessary for 99.99999999999999999998%of occurrences.

People would be better off taking care of off the REST first!

Nomad.2nd · Jul 7, 2013

troy_mclure said:
me. recent financial hardships have reduced my stock of emergency foods and ammo. if things do get squirrely and i cant make it to ohio(my parents property is right at wayne natl forest) im going to have to become a predator of preppers to survive. fortunately most are either poorly armed, poorly trained, or both.

Bad idea, I'm sure you know even one who trusts to Allah and blindly fires a mag around a corner can make a lucky hit.

And when there's no med evac...

returningliberty · Jul 7, 2013

Nomad said:
Oh, absolutely... There could even be a natural event like the EMP from solar in 1856ish.... It even melted telegraph wires.

But again... What are the odds?

You MIGHT die in a car crash tomorrow... But you play they odds and drive anyway.

I'm actually going to spend a few dollars and ground my metal building.... But the odds are insanely against it happening.
And, you'd be better off with a 5 year plan. 2 leaves too much depending on getting a good harvest right off depending on the time of year.

Still not necessary for 99.99999999999999999998%of occurrences.

People would be better off taking care of off the REST first!

Personally, I have a 30 day plan for bad hurricanes. I feel perfectly fine having 30 days of supplies on hand so I'm not beholden to MRE lines.

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