"Casual" Carry in a Vehicle

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  • kingfhb

    NRA & USCCA INST. w/ LSP#
    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0
    Mar 28, 2014
    3,060
    38
    New Orleans, LA
    Lol, no all my handguns pretty standard, none of those liberal ones that jump up and start shooting on their own. I guess not having practiced drawing up and around the steering wheel it seems foreign to me and made me think that could be more dangerous in a high stress situation. Obviously one has to be well versed in their method of carry. You get that online or local?

    I got it online... http://www.gumcreekcustoms.com/Vehicle-Handgun-Mount-p8.html

    Here are a few scenarios I picture when in a vehicle and suppressing a threat when unable to exit the vehicle... FIRST NOTE: BE PREPARED TO FIRE A WEAPON WITHIN A VEHICLE. It's not like anything you can train for. It will effect and stun you like a flash bang was just thrown in your vehicle. It is VERY loud inside the small space of your car or truck. You WILL temporarily lose your hearing and possibly blow out and eardrum (or two) depending on the round you're firing and the current pressure situation of your vehicle (windows up/down, sunroof open, etc.). Let's face it, no one drives around with "foamies" in and you can't say "Pause" or "Hang on while I put these earplugs in".

    BE PREPARED FOR ELEVATED STRESS. In a vehicle, stress levels are multiplied by a factor of 1,000,000! You're in a confined space, nowhere to go, threat approaching, loud concussive sounds, forces and flashes... there are so many things that act on your every move and can cause you to slip up. Though I wouldn't recommend sitting in your car in your driveway with your weapon practicing these scenarios, there are some great vehicular training courses that allow you to experience some of what could take place during a vehicle-restricted threat defense.

    These are also responses to scenarios using this particular holster, though could be applied to other types of in-vehicle carries.

    Scenario 1: Up close and personal at the drivers window.

    As far as the draw, there's no need to avoid the steering wheel... with the angle of an attacker at your window, at that close range, sights are useless and you don't have time to aim. From the initial pull of the weapon to laying hate on a target is milliseconds. Should you practice, of course. There would be no option to open the vehicle door and step out, though, if you are positive the threat exists and a weapon is visible, lowering your window in preparation of firing can benefit you as well. At this point you're committed, its do or die. Also, if need be, DON'T WAIT FOR THE WINDOW TO BEGIN FIRING!!! Or try to aim over the window as it is going down. Some of us are so conscious of things like not wanting to break glass that we avoid it without even thinking.

    Scenario 2: Approached from in front.

    Another scenario might be someone approaching from the front of the vehicle... drawing the weapon in a natural motion and pulling it back to you on the way to taking action through your front windshield (if you choose to do so) is a matter of clearing the dash, not the steering wheel. In this type scenario, you would want to remember to fire two to three rounds in succession as fast as possible to place at least one round accurately as they pass through the trajectory altering glass. Also, remember, windshield glass is coated so that it stays intact when shattered (for the most part). This can either help or hurt you. Once the integrity of the glass is breached, the level of "webbing" that occurs can actually hinder the future attempts to acquire your target. So make your shots count. Opening your door and leaning out (not stepping entirely out, this isn't Hollywood!) avoids the glass and gives you a small unobstructed firing channel. Also, that thin door sheet metal provides NO COVER from a head-on assault anyway. You'd be better off retreating to the rear of the vehicle. But lets stick to not being able to exit the vehicle.

    Scenario 3: Approached from behind.

    A threat approaching from behind has an added difficulty in the drivers ability to put rounds on the target due to the glass, rear seats, higher dash and frame, etc. Everything causes a round to divert from its original path... even seat foam. However, this isn't the movies either where the rear glass just crumbles and falls immediately upon the impact of a round. Rear glass is not designed like a front windshield to stay intact when punctured (neither are door windows unless tinted with a quality tint - cheap tint flakes apart like ). They do fall, but it may not be immediate and could hinder your view of a target once deformed. So again, place your shots. DO NOT open the car door and step out... you're putting yourself out in the open with no cover whatsoever. Unless you are a speed runner and can outrun a bullet in your race to get to the front cover of the vehicle.

    Scenario 4: Approached from the passenger side.

    This is probably the best scenario to give you an advantage (or as much of one as you can get being inside a box full of obstructions). Hopefully you have a good picture of the threat as it approaches and can prepare yourself for the oncoming gunfight. In this scenario though, I feel that exiting the vehicle and traversing to the front quarter panel behind the engine, using the mass of the vehicle as cover (remembering to keep as low of a profile as possible and making yourself as small of a target as possible) gives you the best cover. This isn't Dragnet though, remember to move! Don't give the shooter a stationary target.

    However, if you're unable to exit the vehicle, and a threat is approaching from the passenger side (even in a blind spot), the drivers ability to open fire is increased and made more effective by clearing the passenger seat and putting rounds through the vehicle or glass at the approaching threat.

    Contingencies:
    When a threat is approaching a vehicle on an angle in the drivers left blind spot and from the rear, this is the most difficult to counter. This puts a shooter at a disadvantage with needing to maneuver substantially to get a shot off... either by leaning out of the window, opening the door, or re-positioning their entire body to take a shot through the rear glass (which adds a whole new level of multiple difficulties and obstructions). This also makes some simple actions, like reloading, take additional steps to perform when reorienting your body to perform the action (if needed). Of course you can not decide which way a shooter is going to approach... so train for every possibility!

    REMEMBER:
    1. You want to minimize the level of obstructions you need to clear.
    2. You want to minimize the motions you have to perform.
    3. You want to be aware of your surroundings and your limitations - are your windows open or closed? etc.
    4. You want to determine and train on your capabilities regularly - if your windows are up, it changes how far you would have to orient yourself to get full extension of the weapon than it would if the windows are down.
    5. BE PREPARED for the flash and bang.
    6. BE PREPARED FOR HOT ASS CASINGS TO FALL IN YOUR LAP, ON YOUR SEAT, BETWEEN YOUR LEGS, ETC.
    7. VERBAL COMMANDS!! YELL "STOP!"
    8. DO NOT SWEEP YOUR BODY WITH YOUR WEAPON WHEN DRAWING AND HOLSTERING.
    9. TRIGGER DISCIPLINE

    Training... invest in a SIRT pistol. It allows for multiple levels of trigger control, is weighted properly, etc. Another great option is a "Blue" Gun. They seem pricey for a hunk of hard rubber or plastic, but they are well worth it.

    In closing, I like this particular holster mount for a simple fact of being able to quickly exit the vehicle and draw in one fluid motion. As your stepping out, the weapon is already drawn and at your side or you're already bringing it up to put down the threat. Also, the possibility that you're going to be in an all out gunfight at distance with someone approaching your vehicle is slim to none. You have more of a chance to defend yourself against someone point-blank in your drivers side window during a car jacking or attempted robbery. This holster also allows for you to plan your draw more-so than a belt holster or another mount point... look at it this way by following these steps to draw from a side holster in your vehicle...

    1. lean forward
    2. arm goes back and hand grabs the weapon
    3. weapon is pulled up to clear the holster
    4. weapon is moved forward to extend the arm for firing
    5. leaning to orient yourself getting proper arm extension and sight picture

    As you can see, drawing your weapon in a vehicle from a side holster would cause you to lean forward, bring your arm back, draw the weapon up, and then orient yourself for firing. This holster mount, when you draw the weapon, your arm is already forward and bringing the firearm up, eliminating steps.

    1. Lean slightly forward to grab the weapon
    2. pull the firearm
    3. lean to orient yourself for firing

    The less steps and more fluent motion the better. Do you have to be Billy The Kid on the draw? No... and you more than likely don't want to be. Is this optimal for every shooter? Of course not. Everyone has their own views and experience with what works for them. Do what you know and know what you do.

    I know of someone who was killed recently while attacking someone through the drivers side window... the driver used restraint to the point of knowing there was no defense of this giant guy restraining him in his vehicle and pummeling him through the window. He drew his weapon (from a holster similar to this), the threat wasn't even aware of his actions, barely brought the weapon up (I'm surprised he cleared the door, though at that range it would have penetrated the plastic, glass and sheet metal) and fired a single round, catching the guy in the chest and neutralizing the threat almost immediately (he let go and took a few steps before collapsing). Now, this driver had great firearm discipline... not pulling the weapon until absolutely necessary and taking the shot out of fear that he would probably be unconscious in seconds. Most would still be fumbling with their keys attempting to get them in the ignition to drive away and forget they even had the weapon in place.

    Stress changes things and would make a third party easily ask "Why didn't he/she just do this?"... but until you're in that position, you never know. That's where training comes in... so you can perform those actions without even thinking about it.

    Sorry... I didn't mean to give a lecture about vehicle-based firearm training. Also, this isn't a bible... tactics and procedures change daily. If you're thinking about taking a course on vehicle-based training, I would highly recommend it. DO NOT go by what someone posted in an online forum (INCLUDING THIS POST). This is just to get you thinking about it... Go and learn from a professional in a professional environment and experience it for yourself. We spend a good majority of time in our vehicles... carjackings, insurance scams, drive-by's, etc. could all present themselves at any time.

    The criminals train by performing these crimes on their victims... and they learn to perform them well. Why not prepare YOURSELF and prevent them from making their experience with you a training day by taking them to school?

    Do you like what I did there?? I just came up with that! hahaha...
     
    Last edited:

    Emperor

    Seriously Misunderstood!
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    11   0   0
    Mar 7, 2011
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    "Bad judgement" has landed a many many people in the hospital, court room, or morgue. A little time on the side of the road should be followed up by a thank you card.

    I understand that! And acknowledge that letting an officer that may have stopped you for a busted tail light see you moving a gun while he is approaching is stupid. But that is not a reason for him to assume that the person may be a criminal. Even if that is how he personally stays frosty on the job!

    He can (should be able to), ask a few poignant questions (and then run the plates and license if necessary), to determine whether he's dealing with dumbass or threat; without making the dummy exit the vehicle for "probable cause!"
     

    IRDWalrus

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 16, 2014
    38
    6
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Car insurance vs Homeowner's insurance could contribute to the "extension of your home" confusion. Where insurers are concerned and your car is broken in to: anything permanently attached (stereo, etc) would be covered with auto comprehensive; Any other contents would require a homeowner's claim.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
     

    general mills

    Well-Known Member
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    10   0   0
    May 1, 2010
    1,539
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    Denham Springs (BR,Hammond area)
    I'm still waiting for somebody to show me where my vehicle is an extension of my home . If it is the law , post it here .


    I've heard that also, never seen it in law. I think it comes from your vehicle being treated like a dwelling when it comes to laws RS 14:19 Use of force or violence in defense and RS 14:20 Justifiable Homicide.

    RS 14:19
    (b)(i) When committed by a person lawfully inside a dwelling, a place of business, or a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40) when the conflict began, against a person who is attempting to make an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, or who has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, and the person using the force or violence reasonably believes that the use of force or violence is necessary to prevent the entry or to compel the intruder to leave the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle.

    RS 14:20
    (3) When committed against a person whom one reasonably believes to be likely to use any unlawful force against a person present in a dwelling or a place of business, or when committed against a person whom one reasonably believes is attempting to use any unlawful force against a person present in a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40), while committing or attempting to commit a burglary or robbery of such dwelling, business, or motor vehicle.

    (4)(a) When committed by a person lawfully inside a dwelling, a place of business, or a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40) when the conflict began, against a person who is attempting to make an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, or who has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, and the person committing the homicide reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the entry or to compel the intruder to leave the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle.

    http://legis.la.gov/lss/lss.asp?doc=78338

    http://legis.la.gov/lss/lss.asp?doc=78336
     
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    madwabbit

    Well-Known Member
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    Jan 2, 2013
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    I'm still waiting for somebody to show me where my vehicle is an extension of my home . If it is the law , post it here .

    It's louisiana "common knowledge" (let that sink in a second...), and its true cause 'merica.

    Thats about the best argument I've ever seen, but I'll wait for someone to come dazzle us with brilliance.
     

    Ske1etor

    BOOM! LEGSHOT!
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    Jan 30, 2008
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    Chacahoula, Louisiana
    I'm still waiting for somebody to show me where my vehicle is an extension of my home . If it is the law , post it here .
    The fact is that your rights do not change, concerning firearms and self defense, because you're in your vehicle. Generally, when people state "an extension of your home" they're speaking about firearms possession and while it doesn't actually say "extension of your home" in practice, it is.

    Sent via dixie cup string phone.
     

    dantheman

    I despise ARFCOM
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    You have the same expectation of safety and security in your vehicle , but not the same expectation of privacy . That's one example I can think of .
     

    Ske1etor

    BOOM! LEGSHOT!
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    11   0   0
    Jan 30, 2008
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    Chacahoula, Louisiana
    You have the same expectation of safety and security in your vehicle , but not the same expectation of privacy . That's one example I can think of .
    That depends. Under certain circumstances, your expectation of privacy changes in your home. Say you're smashing your neighbor in front of an open window, if caught by popo you'd receive the same indecent exposure charge as you would if you were diving into the local bar slag in the back seat of your Honda while parked behind Walgreens.

    Sent via dixie cup string phone.
     

    Barry J

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    Dec 5, 2011
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    There is no law that states "Your vehicle is an extension of your home". The Supreme Court has ruled numerous times that the same rights you have in your home are extended to your vehicle.
     

    Red Leader

    Well-Known Member
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    3   0   0
    Mar 5, 2014
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    Hahnville, La
    Be very careful when driving in other states with a weapon. I lived in Arkansas for four years before I found out it is a felony to have a loaded pistol in a vehicle without a concealed carry permit.
     

    drpc

    Across the State Line
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    0   0   0
    Jun 29, 2010
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    Picayune, MS
    Tell your friend that if they're going to cross the Alabama state line to pull over, unload their handgun and lock it in a compartment that's not accessible to the driver
     

    Emperor

    Seriously Misunderstood!
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    Wasn't "Ruh roh" a Scooby Doo reference indicating there was a mysterious turning point about to happen in the thread? You know, like the woman was throwing out these crazy claims about her instructor and the resident BS Detectives were homing in on her missteps so they could swoop in and crush her enthusiasm?

    I hope I got that right, it was funny if I interpreted it correctly!

    :mamoru:
     

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