How Much Money Is LDWF Leaving On The Table?

tbone · Oct 20, 2014

Raising non-resident prices just causes other states to bow up and raise the price for Louisiana residents to hunt or fish in their state. By then it is not about revenue but about getting back at the state that raised the price for their residents.
For example, Texas deer hunting for Louisiana residents has escalated to $300.75 after we raised our non-resident prices. There used to be an agreement between border states for decent non-resident prices for residents of those states to be charged decent non-resident fees.
After Louisiana raised their non-resident fees for Mississippi residents to saltwater fish in Louisiana, Mississippi raised their non-resident fees for deer hunting in Mississippi.
Both state's legislators get in a pissing contest and the residents of both states lose after it is all over.
These legislators are usually prompted to start the contest by a group of constituents that don't "them out of staters" swarming all over "their woods" or "their waters".

JBP55 · Oct 20, 2014

James70458 said:
Calling the process of trying to educate the public "whining" demonstrates your lack of understanding of a ground roots campaign. Perhaps you're one of those statist that wants the government to run all aspects of your life, we're not. We the people believe we should be running the government, not some elite few, so we try to educate the public on issues so they will ALL carry the message to the elected representatives.

You could put your location in your profile unless you are afraid the Government will find you and run every aspect of your life. If you want to run the government run for office.

JadeRaven · Oct 20, 2014

Geez dude.

If you raise prices to use the range less people will use the range. Economics 101. These people aren't going to all keep coming and paying when you shaft them with your giant fees. Already range-goers are having to buy permits for WMAs they do not use (but for a solitary shell road). If someone doesn't hunt & fish, why should he have to subsidize the hunters and fishermen across the state? That's what people are already doing, and you want to make it even worse.

Already it's a PIA... gotta get licenses for everyone in your party which seem to expire about 2mos after you get it, gotta drive way out to BFE, stop and fill out some dumb permit thing everytime, meander the shell road and possibly get stopped by some agent, and then get to the range, make the trek from the parking lot and then pay the range fee (if it's not flooded out). If you bump the license fees up tremendously like you want, it'll a) take away any incentive to go (no longer a cheap place to shoot) and b) cause people to simply not get a license and take their chances.

If Mississippi's program is so fantastic, why are they coming here?

And then your sig line is so incredible. Think Free... Live Free... and Raise Fees

- - - Updated - - -

Win1917 said:
I'm originally from CA so I grew up with the never ending sales pitch from gov't that if we just raise taxes all our problems will be solved. Hopefully you can understand my skepticism. One of the many things I love about Louisiana is that it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to enjoy the outdoors.

Yep!!

DBMJR1 · Oct 20, 2014

There has been a small, vocal, contingency of hunters on the WMA, that have been trying to limit the operations of the range. They want to be able to hunt the areas adjacent to the range, and the only way they can gain access is if they close the range down.

I use the range, and pay for an annual membership. I also purchase a fishing license, combined, to comply with the law. I see no evidence of non compliance with the shooters at the range. Everyone who I bring to the range is in compliance. The idea of mass non compliance is bogus and unfounded.

If there is a problem with non compliance with the requirement to purchase a license, of some sort, then the OP should be lobbying the LDWF for more enforcement, of which I would have no problem.

The OP states that all hunters pay an additional $65 to use the WMA, and that shooters should pay $65 as well. This is an out and out lie. The majority of hunters on the WMA never purchase a big game tag. Never purchase a primitive weapon tag. Wouldn't even know how to use a bow. They simply pay an additional $15 to hunt rabbit and squirrel on the WMA. Most probably don't even pay that, using the OP's argument, because enforcement is low during small game seasons.

In conclusion; Since 'they' failed at petitioning us out of existence, they now want to tax us out of existence. Typical.

Oh, yes, . . . I have hunted the WMA in the past. I stopped because of irresponsible hunters. Teens being shot in their boats, before dawn. Multiple shots fired, at unseen targets, before dawn.

There is a real need for more enforcement on the WMA. It should be directed at the hunters.

James70458 · Oct 20, 2014

DBMJR1 said:
There has been a small, vocal, contingency of hunters on the WMA, that have been trying to limit the operations of the range. They want to be able to hunt the areas adjacent to the range, and the only way they can gain access is if they close the range down.

I use the range, and pay for an annual membership. I also purchase a fishing license, combined, to comply with the law. I see no evidence of non compliance with the shooters at the range. Everyone who I bring to the range is in compliance. The idea of mass non compliance is bogus and unfounded.

If there is a problem with non compliance with the requirement to purchase a license, of some sort, then the OP should be lobbying the LDWF for more enforcement, of which I would have no problem.

The OP states that all hunters pay an additional $65 to use the WMA, and that shooters should pay $65 as well. This is an out and out lie. The majority of hunters on the WMA never purchase a big game tag. Never purchase a primitive weapon tag. Wouldn't even know how to use a bow. They simply pay an additional $15 to hunt rabbit and squirrel on the WMA. Most probably don't even pay that, using the OP's argument, because enforcement is low during small game seasons.

In conclusion; Since 'they' failed at petitioning us out of existence, they now want to tax us out of existence. Typical.

Oh, yes, . . . I have hunted the WMA in the past. I stopped because of irresponsible hunters. Teens being shot in their boats, before dawn. Multiple shots fired, at unseen targets, before dawn.

There is a real need for more enforcement on the WMA. It should be directed at the hunters.

In your haste to make your post your talking points you misquoted the post, as it didn't say all hunters, what is said was, "In Louisiana, each Resident deer hunter of the PRWMA is minimally required (strictly enforced) to pay the following to support the WMA’s:"

As for those that use the range having licenses, well we've already reviewed that and found that most do not comply.
Your whole post is a demonstration of either utter ignorance or a wild imagination. As for the "In conclusion; 'they' failed at petitioning us out of existence, they now want to tax us out of existence. Typical." this is an OUTRIGHT LIE I'm not aware of any petition that tried to end the range. What I am aware of, is a petition that hundreds of hunters of the PRWMA signed politely requesting that the range hours be contracted in the early morning and late afternoon during legal hunting seasons in the area, NOT shut the range down.

Why is it that people like you must resort to misinformation and lies to try to persuade people to "your side" of the debate? But this isn't about you, it's about improving the quality of our WMA's, which is a worthy cause that will give more people better opportunities to experience and enjoy outdoor adventures. Which leads to another question, why is those running the range, and people like you, don't want to share the PRWMA and seem to want your event at the exclusion of all others?

Win1917 · Oct 20, 2014

James70458 said:
Why is it that people like you must resort to misinformation and lies to try to persuade people to "your side" of the debate

I see you already forgot about the farcical income "estimates" you opened the thread with. Pot? Kettle?

James70458 · Oct 20, 2014

JadeRaven said:
Geez dude.

If you raise prices to use the range less people will use the range. Economics 101. These people aren't going to all keep coming and paying when you shaft them with your giant fees. Already range-goers are having to buy permits for WMAs they do not use (but for a solitary shell road). If someone doesn't hunt & fish, why should he have to subsidize the hunters and fishermen across the state? That's what people are already doing, and you want to make it even worse.

Already it's a PIA... gotta get licenses for everyone in your party which seem to expire about 2mos after you get it, gotta drive way out to BFE, stop and fill out some dumb permit thing everytime, meander the shell road and possibly get stopped by some agent, and then get to the range, make the trek from the parking lot and then pay the range fee (if it's not flooded out). If you bump the license fees up tremendously like you want, it'll a) take away any incentive to go (no longer a cheap place to shoot) and b) cause people to simply not get a license and take their chances.

If Mississippi's program is so fantastic, why are they coming here?

And then your sig line is so incredible. Think Free... Live Free... and Raise Fees

- - - Updated - - -

Yep!!

How ignorant of a statement... "range-goers are having to buy permits for WMAs they do not use (but for a solitary shell road)"... since you obviously don't know, the range and range safety zone is located on, and occupies over 200 acres of the PRWMA, but yes, the "solitary shell road", which is actually rocks, and represents 1/3 of the roadway in the PRWMA is also on the PRWMA and requires more maintenance (and funds to) than do the other 2/3 used by hunters, sightseeing and bird watching.

Perhaps a return to the economics classroom would be in line for you, and a lesson in reading, because you've either not read the thread, or truly don't understand competitive intelligence and competitive pricing. Neither do you seem to comprehend the simplicity of Louisiana not wanting customers that don't pay their fair share of the bill.

Regarding the PIA... people already have chosen "b" and "simply (don't) not get a license and take their chances", that's one of the problems.

Gator 45/70 · Oct 20, 2014

Why heck, Before you know it those boys in Mississippi will be putting down a Louisiana address in order to avoid the higher than Hades license plate and taxes on new vehicle,
Oh, Wait a minute........?

mike84z28 · Oct 20, 2014

I frequently use the range and hunt PRWMA ( Lets say A LOT) and apprcieate them both. The range is an all volunteer group and many significant improvements have been made. As for the management area, it gets wiped out almost every spring by high water and flooding. The rock roads, boat launches and trails are washed away yearly (anyone that hunts there A LOT knows this). Its a very difficult place to manage, however the area in question is VERY small when considering the size of PRWMA @ some 35,000 acres. As for hunting near the rifle range REALLY ??? Have you seen some of those guys shoot?? I would stay FAR away !

JadeRaven · Oct 20, 2014

James70458 said:
How ignorant of a statement... "range-goers are having to buy permits for WMAs they do not use (but for a solitary shell road)"... since you obviously don't know, the range and range safety zone is located on, and occupies over 200 acres of the PRWMA, but yes, the "solitary shell road", which is actually rocks, and represents 1/3 of the roadway in the PRWMA is also on the PRWMA and requires more maintenance (and funds to) than do the other 2/3 used by hunters, sightseeing and bird watching.

Perhaps a return to the economics classroom would be in line for you, and a lesson in reading, because you've either not read the thread, or truly don't understand competitive intelligence and competitive pricing. Neither do you seem to comprehend the simplicity of Louisiana not wanting customers that don't pay their fair share of the bill.

Regarding the PIA... people already have chosen "b" and "simply (don't) not get a license and take their chances", that's one of the problems.

Sorry bro for all of my ignorance and false understanding of competitive intelligence.

The shooters at honey island are literally visiting a single wildlife management area to go shoot at a range. They are not hunting, fishing, etc., and doing nothing else under the domain of LDWF enforcement. But because they use a single shell road at one WMA to visit the range, they're supposed to support and subsidize the entire LDWF fleet of boats, trucks, staff etc. that provides hunting & fishing enforcement to the same extent as the hunters and fishermen who hunt and fish across the entire state?

You know, I'm surprised you haven't gotten more fans here.

Think Free, Live Free bro!

DBMJR1 · Oct 20, 2014

James70458 said:
As for those that use the range having licenses, well we've already reviewed that and found that most do not comply.

I'm sorry. I've read this entire thread, and missed the quantitative data that showed that most people using the range do not comply.

I call BS

James70458 · Oct 20, 2014

DBMJR1 said:
I'm sorry. I've read this entire thread, and missed the quantitative data that showed that most people using the range do not comply.

I call BS

The BS is all yours, as I've witnessed the non-enforcement, and lack of licenses first hand with LDWF staff with me... do you have something to refute this or just should we just take you at your BS?

By the way, why do you and so many others not use your real names? Obviously mine is James, what is yours?

James70458 · Oct 20, 2014

JadeRaven said:
Sorry bro for all of my ignorance and false understanding of competitive intelligence.

The shooters at honey island are literally visiting a single wildlife management area to go shoot at a range. They are not hunting, fishing, etc., and doing nothing else under the domain of LDWF enforcement. But because they use a single shell road at one WMA to visit the range, they're supposed to support and subsidize the entire LDWF fleet of boats, trucks, staff etc. that provides hunting & fishing enforcement to the same extent as the hunters and fishermen who hunt and fish across the entire state?

You know, I'm surprised you haven't gotten more fans here.

Think Free, Live Free bro!

Didn't expect to have a fan club on a "shooters" site, just wanted to present some facts and try to educate those that are uninformed about what's really going on at PRWMA. Unlike the talking points repeated by many in here, there has been no effort that I'm aware of to get rid of the range. To the contrary, the hunters have tried numerous times to work with those running the range, only to be met with ignorance, arrogance, and misinformation, just like what it goes on in this post.

Guess you're one of those fans of democracy, and go with the majority rules sort of thing... such a shame.

But I do see your point, and I'm beginning to understand just how difficult it is to use reason and facts with single track, close minded individuals that don't want to learn anything, but would prefer to rely on information gathered from talking points provided by disingenuous directors of propaganda.

Again, as has been posted, the shooters are using over 200 acres of land on the PRWMA, the most prime habitat for turkey in the entire WMA, to shoot at paper targets. That is not "using a single shell road" as you have so eloquently misrepresented... that's just facts, and we're beginning to see facts to bother those that like killing paper...LMAO

Pepperidge · Oct 20, 2014

James70458 said:
In Louisiana, each Resident deer hunter of the PRWMA is minimally required (strictly enforced) to pay the following to support the WMA’s:

Basic Season $15.00
Big Game $14.00
Bow $10.00
Primitive Firearm $10.50
WMA Hunting Permit $15.00

TOTAL OF $65.00 PER YEAR

In Louisiana, each Non-Resident deer hunter on the PRWMA is minimally required (strictly enforced) to pay the following to support the WMA’s:

Basic Season $ 150.00
Big Game $ 150.00
Bow $ 26.00
Primitive Firearm $ 26.00
WMA Hunting Permit $ 15.00

TOTAL OF $ 367.00 PER YEAR

In Louisiana, each user (both resident and non-resident) of the range on the PRWMA is minimally required (by law but not enforced) to pay the following to support the WMA’s.

Wild Louisiana Stamp $2.00 per day, or $9.50 per year

TOTAL OF $9.50

If Louisiana would simply match the fees currently charged in Mississippi for the same services, that would require those Louisiana residents using the range at PRWMA to purchase $55.00 worth of State permits, which is still less than a resident hunter pays now. So, the argument could be had that those using the range don't want to pay their fair share and want the hunters to subsidize their outdoor activities.

there you go again...cherry picking the numbers...

not everyone is a deer hunter...

and some people are just fisherman... so your numbers are biased...

You should be a politician with the way you skew numbers to swindle people...

sandman7925 · Oct 20, 2014

This thread is ridiculous!!

mike84z28 · Oct 20, 2014

sandman7925 said:
This thread is ridiculous!!

Yes it is !! 200 hundred out of 35,000. And you call that PRIME hunting area. LMAO, Your no where near the prime !

whitsend · Oct 20, 2014

Civil discussions are welcome.
Argumentative behavior is not.

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