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  • sliguns

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    Jun 25, 2014
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    I'm 60% of the way through it and it's very interesting to see the behind the scenes of how this all went down.
     

    Saintsfan6

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    Interesting, but the documentary attempts to paint Snowden as a patriot and fighter for democracy, yet he fled to Russia because he broke several laws by stealing classified information from the government. Instead of facing a trial in the very system he claims to be fighting for, he flees to hostile foreign governments and likely gave away delicate information in the process.

    Furthermore, it is highly questionable that someone working as a contractor would have access to as many files and programs as he claims to have access to. For example, he claims he could wire tap anyone (including the President) which has been called a flat out lie by people much more informed than I am.

    While it is good to hear this point of view on the matter, I would suggest also doing a quick search about Snowden's contradictions and lies. While I believe he and this documentary brought to discussion a very important topic, don't take it all as entirely truthful or factual.
     

    madppcs

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    Jul 4, 2010
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    Im thankful for what he did. Was everything he did legal? Im not sure. Is everything he brought to light that the US Govt is doing to its own citizens despite the constitution legal? NO! So whos really wrong here? The ones that determine things are too classified to even determine if they are legal/illegal and just do it anyway? Or the one who exposes it, and gives up everything so that Americans can learn how our Govt thinks of its citizens?
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    Dec 31, 2013
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    He broke laws, yes he did. Who made those laws? And do they abide by those laws themselves? It appears they do not.

    I don't doubt what he says. The proof is overwhelming. It's there, plain as day and I believe to deny that truth or to condemn him for bringing it to light is to accept that what our goverment is doing is ok. But it's not.

    Exposing the truth to the public would expose the truth to the world, which negates any insinuation that he was sharing national secrets with an enemy of the nation specifically, so I don't buy the whole espionage load of crap spewed forth by the POTUS, but I understand why he expressed it. Getting caught red handed with pants around the ankles will always bring out finger pointing.
     

    Saintsfan6

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    Suggesting Snowden lied about his status and abilities/powers does not mean I do not think some or all of the things he said about government data collection is true. I am simply stating that he may be overstating what he was capable of. I question him as well as the government that condemns him. It is obvious that the government collects data. Does that mean I agree with it because I believe Snowden shared classified information with foreign governments? No.

    If he was so ready to sacrifice himself for the better of democracy and liberty (as he claims), why run off to communists countries where there is very little freedom, democracy, or liberty? I think he would have made a much better stand in a court room further exposing the government rather than going off to China and Russia as a criminal.

    The information he exposed needed to be shared, and I am happy he came forward with it. I am not happy he took that information and went to hostile foreign governments with it.
     

    sliguns

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    The information he exposed needed to be shared, and I am happy he came forward with it. I am not happy he took that information and went to hostile foreign governments with it.

    Where's the evidence that this happened?

    It's my understanding (from what Poitras & Greenwald have reported - they were the ones who met/communicated with Snowden), once Snowden gave them the data Snowden was no longer in possession of any of it so that this type of claim against him would not have any truth to it.
     

    Armed Mage

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    Aug 3, 2013
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    Suggesting Snowden lied about his status and abilities/powers does not mean I do not think some or all of the things he said about government data collection is true. I am simply stating that he may be overstating what he was capable of. I question him as well as the government that condemns him. It is obvious that the government collects data. Does that mean I agree with it because I believe Snowden shared classified information with foreign governments? No.

    If he was so ready to sacrifice himself for the better of democracy and liberty (as he claims), why run off to communists countries where there is very little freedom, democracy, or liberty? I think he would have made a much better stand in a court room further exposing the government rather than going off to China and Russia as a criminal.

    The information he exposed needed to be shared, and I am happy he came forward with it. I am not happy he took that information and went to hostile foreign governments with it.

    Because Russia is one of the few countries that would not extradite him and where the CIA wouldn't have free reign to hunt him down (which is why he left South America). I don't see how Russia could use the intelligence he exposed against the U.S. other than propaganda, considering that it was primarily targeting America's own population.
     

    Saintsfan6

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    I do not have proof that he brought intel to Russia, there is also no proof that he turned over all intel he stole to the reporters. He obviously ran to Russia to evade capture. You assume he only stole information that was relevant to government monitoring on its own citizens, are you sure about this? I do not know, but I sure do question it.

    Obviously several here believe him to be an American hero. While I believe he brought to light important information and topics, I do not believe he is some kind of protector of liberty. I would like to believe he did this for the right reasons, and in the process kept important classified information out of the hands of enemies (information that doesn't pertain to US data collection on its own citizen). However, I am not certain. But I must be a tyrannical government sympathizer for having an opinion that questions Snowden.
     

    Armed Mage

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    Aug 3, 2013
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    I do not have proof that he brought intel to Russia, there is also no proof that he turned over all intel he stole to the reporters. He obviously ran to Russia to evade capture. You assume he only stole information that was relevant to government monitoring on its own citizens, are you sure about this? I do not know, but I sure do question it.

    Obviously several here believe him to be an American hero. While I believe he brought to light important information and topics, I do not believe he is some kind of protector of liberty. I would like to believe he did this for the right reasons, and in the process kept important classified information out of the hands of enemies (information that doesn't pertain to US data collection on its own citizen). However, I am not certain. But I must be a tyrannical government sympathizer for having an opinion that questions Snowden.

    No, I think your opinion is respectable. It's certainly possible that Snowden could have taken and given away intel that could have truly threatened national security, but I have yet to see any indication that he did. Innocent until proven guilty.
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    Dec 31, 2013
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    No, I think your opinion is respectable. It's certainly possible that Snowden could have taken and given away intel that could have truly threatened national security, but I have yet to see any indication that he did. Innocent until proven guilty.
    This.
    And is it truly plausible that he would have had any chance of a free life here? (Or a fair trial?) I firmly believe no. Not at all. He ran because he's smart and because he knows how things are done now. He fled to another country to avoid being imprisoned or even killed. Look at it this way, if he'd stayed here and simply gave the info to the reporters, (same scenario, but stayed here at home) he'd have been guilty of what? Whistleblowing? What happened to the person who exposed fast and furious? Were they found guilty of anything?

    The work he did allowed him access to what he collected. He didn't hack NSA. He worked for NSA via a contractor. Doing what? The answers to most of the questions of doubt are all there. And the work he did demanded the access he had.
     

    sliguns

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    Jun 25, 2014
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    free live link to watch

    http://documentary-movie.com/citizenfour/

    Watched it again last night after going to see the movie that just came out....man still crazy to realize what the govt is doing...watching the Hollywood movie was weird ( it was good and worth watching though) b/c seeing what happened acted out on screen just really puts it all into another light.
     

    Creoleman

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    Mar 12, 2013
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    To any who say that the man should just come home and face justice? Let's see: come back and face "justice" from the same government that claimed for years that they weren't spying on their own citizens? Yeah, sounds reasonable to me. (and for the very few that don't know, that there's sarcasm, y'all. :rolleyes:
     
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