Black Aces Tactical firearm

whitsend · Mar 4, 2016

I know it's not really a shotgun, but I couldn't figure out where this post should go.
It's just a firearm. Not a shotgun, not a pistol, not a SBS, not NFA, just a firearm.
No stamp required.

http://www.blackacestactical.com/

DAVE_M · Mar 4, 2016

$1527 for a Shotg... I mean, Firearm? What makes this not a SBS or AOW? Isn't the Serbu considered an AOW?

rcm192 · Mar 4, 2016

I met the owner of this company(We were actually groomsmen in a wedding!) before the sig brace came out hes a good guy. Pretty cool to see how his products are developing.

whitsend · Mar 4, 2016

The Serbu is built from a shotgun reciever.

The SUPER-SHORTY is based on a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 (at additional cost) 12-gauge shotgun that came from the factory with a pistol grip. Because of this, the SUPER-SHORTY is considered an AOW (Any Other Weapon) and can be transferred with a $5 stamp! The gun holds two 2-3/4" or 3" shells in the magazine, plus one in the chamber. The 16.5" overall length, 6.5" barrel and spring-locked foregrip, which pivots out of the way when not in use, make for a very compact package. As far as we know, this is the shortest 12-gauge pump shotgun available. All parts for the SUPER-SHORTY are made in-house on our own CNC machinery using materials ideally suited to the task. All welds are done by the TIG process, and the manganese phosphate finish is MIL-spec. The SUPER-SHORTY is currently being used by various law enforcement agencies and military units worldwide, and has appeared in movies, TV shows and video games. If you like the idea of concealed carry with a 12-gauge, or like a lot of "bang" in a small package, or just want the most compact breaching weapon available, then this is the gun for you. You won't find a better made AOW pump shotgun than the SUPER-SHORTY!

The Black Aces DT is built from a new receiver that was never a shotgun.
It's all based on the ATFs wording.

Emperor · Mar 4, 2016

It's kind of silly. I can't see any practical reason to buy this over other things like it! :dunno:

DAVE_M · Mar 4, 2016

Emperor said:
It's kind of silly. I can't see any practical reason to buy this over other things like it!

Similar reason to the guys that own machine guns and don't have a CHP.

Mxav · Mar 4, 2016

Always had a soft spot for that toy..

Emperor · Mar 4, 2016

DAVE_M said:
Similar reason to the guys that own machine guns and don't have a CHP.

See, I don't know. A machine gun would be a kick in the ass to shoot things with (if you could easily afford the ammo).

I won't even respond to anyone that refuses to get a CHP. They are just stupid! :rofl:

DAVE_M · Mar 4, 2016

Point being, some people just buy what they want to buy.

I've had a BS member, in person, tell me that Glocks are stupid, because he owns some MG's and high power rifles and doesn't care for little stuff.

Emperor · Mar 4, 2016

DAVE_M said:
Point being, some people just buy what they want to buy.

I've had a BS member, in person, tell me that Glocks are stupid, because he owns some MG's and high power rifles and doesn't care for little stuff.

I get that. Here is the problem with that for me. Self preservation; and, self and family protection are not hobbies! Anyone that can't see the reason to be armed at all times in this current America is either living in a utopian city or town where they most likely won't interact with dirt bags. Or they can't get the permit. Or are scared and don't trust themselves with a gun on them! Or they are in the concealed is concealed crowd already. Or they can't afford a gun. What else could it possibly be?

When I was a kid, I carried a 9 inch stiletto knife on me at all times. Now I can legally carry a hidden gun on me at all times! Carrying the knife was not a hobby! It was for in case I needed it to protect myself. Same now with the gun.

My point is, how can you not want to be armed just in case? Is there any good reason not to have a gun; or knife even, for self protection? People will justify shooting machine guns, and in the same conversation believe there is no reason to have something on them to protect themselves or worse, their families?

The choices I laid up top or ignorance is the only ones that I can see. I guess I better add denial too!

PS: Sorry Whits! Didn't mean to derail your thread.

BeardedPatriot38 · Jul 15, 2016

Very nice....

" When corruption reigns, Revolution follows... "

JeeperCreeper · Jul 15, 2016

Emperor said:
I get that. Here is the problem with that for me. Self preservation; and, self and family protection are not hobbies! Anyone that can't see the reason to be armed at all times in this current America is either living in a utopian city or town where they most likely won't interact with dirt bags. Or they can't get the permit. Or are scared and don't trust themselves with a gun on them! Or they are in the concealed is concealed crowd already. Or they can't afford a gun. What else could it possibly be?

I'm glad A LOT of the MORONS out there are not armed! There are a lot of hotheads that don't neeed to carry. As long as I'm armed I could care less what other people are thinking.

I'm more of a rifle guy, but that doesn't mean I don't own pistols. I keep one on my desk at my office everyday. If I want to expand my collection though, it will be long guns.

Novelty items like in the OP though, it looks cool as hell, but I'd buy something else with the money it costs. That's a lot of $$ for a novelty.

Whitebread · Jul 15, 2016

Ok so I'm confused: an AOW requires a tax stamp but is not an NFA item? How does that work? AOW isnt the same thing as "Other" on a 4473 is it? If so why would it be a problem with a virgin build ar pistol length with a vert grip up front?

whitsend · Jul 15, 2016

Whitebread said:
Ok so I'm confused: an AOW requires a tax stamp but is not an NFA item? How does that work? AOW isnt the same thing as "Other" on a 4473 is it? If so why would it be a problem with a virgin build ar pistol length with a vert grip up front?

You can't put a front grip on a pistol.
This is not a pistol because it is a smooth barrel.

It was purpose built to not fit any classification except "Firearm", so it is just a firearm.

Whitebread · Jul 15, 2016

whitsend said:
You can't put a front grip on a pistol.
This is not a pistol because it is a smooth barrel.

It was purpose built to not fit any classification except "Firearm", so it is just a firearm.

That wasnt my point its classifed as AOW right? Is that not an NFA classification? A pistol with a vert becomes an AOW too right? What keeps me from building my virgin lower in to an AOW? I dont get whats different?

Whitebread · Jul 15, 2016

Also I know I'm not exactly an expert but I thought any smooth bore weapon was labeled a shot gun of some nature long gun or sbs.

whitsend · Jul 15, 2016

Whitebread said:
That wasnt my point its classifed as AOW right? Is that not an NFA classification? A pistol with a vert becomes an AOW too right? What keeps me from building my virgin lower in to an AOW? I dont get whats different?

Whitebread said:
Also I know I'm not exactly an expert but I thought any smooth bore weapon was labeled a shot gun of some nature long gun or sbs.

Nope it is ONLY a firearm. It doesn't meet the definition of any other classification.

They found the loophole.

shrxfn · Jul 15, 2016

Do they have a letter from the ATF stating that it is really a loophole? I wouldn't want to take the word of just anyone on what a weapon like that would be. I wouldn't want to be a beta-tester for ATF loopholes.

Sulzer · Jul 15, 2016

Whitebread said:
Ok so I'm confused: an AOW requires a tax stamp but is not an NFA item? How does that work? AOW isnt the same thing as "Other" on a 4473 is it? If so why would it be a problem with a virgin build ar pistol length with a vert grip up front?

An AOW goes out as an "Other" on the 4473 because the other two choice are Handgun and Long Gun which it is neither.

Whitebread said:
That wasnt my point its classifed as AOW right? Is that not an NFA classification? A pistol with a vert becomes an AOW too right? What keeps me from building my virgin lower in to an AOW? I dont get whats different?

It is not classified as an Other, Shotgun, Short Barrel Shotgun, etc. It's classification is Firearm.

Whitebread said:
Also I know I'm not exactly an expert but I thought any smooth bore weapon was labeled a shot gun of some nature long gun or sbs.

The term “Shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

This was not designed ( and because it started as a virgin receiver never was designed) to be fired from the shoulder so it cannot be not a shotgun.

shrxfn said:
Do they have a letter from the ATF stating that it is really a loophole? I wouldn't want to take the word of just anyone on what a weapon like that would be. I wouldn't want to be a beta-tester for ATF loopholes.

Yes

Sulzer · Jul 15, 2016

They key to this weapon, and where people get hung up, is that they are building these from virgin receivers. This is the key to the loopholes. If he was to take an 870 and do the same thing it would be a SBS.

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