Shotgun?

John_ · Jul 21, 2016

JoeLiberty said:
Shotguns are for the birds.

Ya ever seen what a 12 gauge 1 oz slug does to flesh? There is a reason people use 12 gauge slugs as defense against brown or grizzly bears....and not 5.56 rounds or AR-15s.

Humans DO NOT survive hits with 12 ga slugs to the torso. .80 cal holes in and out minimum with zero expansion. More likely to expand to 1". It isn't pretty at all.

LACamper · Jul 21, 2016

And I think that is my concern about shotguns. I live in the suburbs where the houses are 5' apart. A 12ga slug or errant OO pellet will go through a wall and into a neighbor... over penetration is a concern.

mike84z28 · Jul 21, 2016

Someone capable of using a shotgun with surgical like precision in most cases will have the upper hand in firepower over anyone with a handgun. For mere effect in a closed up house the blast of any 12 gauge would make most crap there pants ! Not to mention the ability to blast thru walls and doors at will making a large hole. If my life or my family is in that type of danger then there will be zero time to consider where the rounds may end up, it's life or death.

DerpMeister · Jul 21, 2016

JoeLiberty said:
I would posit that you are just as likely to make hits with a rifle as with a shotgun at inside the house ranges.

Fine. But a single 5.56mm round- of any bullet type- is not going to cause the same damage that a shotgun shell does, given that either shot is hit below the head and before the shot charge begins to open up

Muzzle energy is debatable for a shotgun? Assuming one is using standard shells, at 25 feet or less... uh, no. For that matter, the many folks who say birdshot at close indoor range is worthless are simply wrong. I have stood over two dead bad guys, shot indoors, one with #7.5 shot and one with #6, both DRT; immediately after being hit with those. Pretty much final, there. Sure, outside, shotguns can be for the birds. Indoors 25 or so (or less) feet... well, opinions vary.

And what if one's AR is using an optic or open sights two inches above the bore line? Hope one remembers to aim two inches above where they want the bullet to hit, at indoor house ranges.

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DerpMeister · Jul 21, 2016

JeeperCreeper said:
I use a coach gun currently, I will replace it with a youth model 20ga pump soon.

Saturday, I saw, one in Walker and one in Central Wally World, two 870 Youth Model guns with shortened stocks and Modified choke tubes in their 21" barrels. Ready for this? The prices were $287!

Might be still in Walker... no longer in Central, unless they got another one.

You must be getting old like me. That Youth Model 20 gauge 870 is definitely smaller, lighter, and less recoil than a 12 gauge example. I'm going to be needing one not too far down the road. For that price... I decided not to wait until I need one. :cool:

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JoeLiberty · Jul 21, 2016

I'm not arguing that a slug to the chest is good for your health, ya sillies. Round for round at close range assuming you only get one shot, yeah a shotgun is a better choice. But there are more considerations than that. I'm only arguing that the characteristics offered by an AR make it a good idea as well. Maybe as good, maybe better. Handling characteristics, Capacity, reload speed, distance, accuracy, penetration, overpenetration... These are all factors you could consider.

CHW2021 · Jul 22, 2016

The obvious is that a shotgun (with whatever load) will have a shorter range than a 223 and will be less likely to penetrate the neighbor's house than any other type firearm (with shot). I keep a shotgun handy as I know I can make a hit regardless of being half asleep or can take out any "night time critter" outside the house at flashlight range. In my opinion, there is nothing more devastating than a shotgun blast, indoors with any shot size the impact energy is multiple times handgun rounds.

It would be hard to argue in court that an intruder beyond 50 yards (max shotgun range IMO) was an imminent threat for the most part.

rhettro · Jul 22, 2016

John_ said:
Ya ever seen what a 12 gauge 1 oz slug does to flesh? There is a reason people use 12 gauge slugs as defense against brown or grizzly bears....and not 5.56 rounds or AR-15s.

Humans DO NOT survive hits with 12 ga slugs to the torso. .80 cal holes in and out minimum with zero expansion. More likely to expand to 1". It isn't pretty at all.

killed many a deer with a 12g slug. Always a bang-flop.

John_ · Jul 22, 2016

rhettro said:
killed many a deer with a 12g slug. Always a bang-flop.

a shorter barreled 12 gauge shotgun with anything larger than 6 shot is dollar for dollar the best home defense weapon period.
And you can do so much more with it, hunt squirrels to bear. $220 or less and you can effectively defend your home from any predator, short of a platoon size assault team.

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