Has anyone here successfully completed a Form 4 transfer using a trust in Louisiana? I understand trusts are a little different here due to the Napoleonic code system we have and La. doesn't recognize Willmaker trust. Also, was the Louisiana State registration and transfer any different with the trust?
i look at it this way... The $35 fee allows me to skip fingerprints and CLEO signature. If I only do one transfer a year, to me it is worth it. Just having the fingerprint done cost me $10 in jefferson parish.
Although many are having success with Trusts there are many who believe that are problematic.
I understand there are easy online LLC aplications to file with the state.
I used a lawyer that filed everything for me. For me it was worth a few buck to asssure everything was proper. She set it up so that I had other "partners" so other family members could move NFA weapons if necessary and to simplify things in the event of my death. OF course I am the controlling owner. Weapons don't have to be transfered, the ownership of the LLC is simply transfered.
Once I got my offical LLC paperwork from the state (Louisiana sends a nice 8x11 offical looking document with the LLC's name, address and date of inception) I simply submit a copy of this LLC certificate with my packet to the Louisiana State Police and then to the ATF once Louisiana approves.
So once LLC is recorded with state when I tranfer from my dealer...
1. Send louisiana registration and transfer documents filled out in LLC's name to LSP with copy of LLC certificate
2. LA transfer approved
3. Send duplicated Form 4 filled out with LLC as transferee and sign back as YOUR NAME, OWNER LLC, certificate of compliance (federal form), LLC certificate and copy of approved LA transfer. NO FINGER PRINTS OR CLEO SIGNATURE
4. pick up guns when approved. Still have to fill out form 4473, but no NCIS check required.
Last I heard on trusts in Louisiana is they are being kicked back. Kevin at Precision said his latest trust transfers didn't go through. In any other state trusts would be very simple. It's just our screwed up law system that makes regular trusts invalid.
LLCs will work but you have to maintain the LLC for as long as you own the weapon (presumably the rest of your life). That means paying for the LLC every year and maybe file taxes if the LLC has any cash flows.
In my opinion, easiest long term method is just get a signoff from your local sheriff. Sid Gautreaux is signing them pretty fast now here in EBR.
Let me know what other questions you have. I'm on my third NFA transfer this year.
I just did a really quick google and came up with this page. I contacted him and will see what happens.
Being in the military and moving quite often makes a trust definitely beneficial. What I'm trying to find out is how hard it will be to move it with me. From what I've read, moving an LLC can be slightly complicated, but maybe you someone smarter than me can set me straight.
Yeah someone on Opencarry.org googled up that exact page but got nowhere with contacting him. Maybe you can do better.
It's actually very easy to move an individually owned NFA item out of state. In fact, I just ordered and received 10 copies of the proper form to do it. You must use this form when taking the weapon out of state temporarily or permanently. I visit my family in Mississippi and they have lots of land to use my SBR so I was planning to submit the form with my planned travel dates for the year and be done with it. Suppressors are exempt from this process and can be moved around temporarily all you want.
It's a really simple form and you can even fax it in and receive approval in less than a week. Not a big deal.
I was thinking about the Trust for my c3's. I have three attorneys in the family, two family and one criminal. After all three of them scratched their heads, my father pointed me to a friend of his that is a trust laywer here in La.. After speaking with that lawyer for about 30 minutes, he basically talked me out of doing it. Because of the Nepoleonic code and the way that Trusts are handled, that it was extremely difficult and should be only used for wealth management. He distinctly noted the amount of time (attny word for money) it would take for changes to be applied to the Trust in the event that they were needed (Death, Trustees etc...). I'm not sure if he just didn't want to do it for the firearms, but I didn't go this way.
I've decided to go with the CLEO signoff with the LLC as a backup. So far the process has been painless including the sheriff signoff.
After setting up your LLC, as long as you don't gain or loose money you do not need to file your taxes any differently. The state automatically sends you a statement for your fees each year to the address you registered, you just write the check and return it to them to maintain your status.
"I certify that I am the chief law enforcement officer of the organization named below having jurisdiction in the area of residence of..."
But it doesn't have to be the Sheriff. There is a whole list of people that can sign. Let me know if you need me to dig that list up.
There's a list on the Form4, but I'm pretty sure, the sheriff is probably the only one around here who would sign off. I think I'll probably just bite the bullet and go the LLC route just - seems like it'd be easier in the long run.