low light handgun class?

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  • bigtattoo79

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    Let me pose the question this way....

    If you were to take a low light/no-light course, what would you hope to gain?

    What knowledge or skill set would you hope to gain?

    I would like to learn to better use intermediate light to identify and engage targets. I would also like to learn to use a handheld light in the event the WML fails and how to use a WML in the event the handheld fails.
     

    Vanilla Gorilla

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    Advantage Group would do one. Traditionally there hasn't been enough people willing to turn out. The class we are doing with Guerrilla Approach in May has a low light module.
     

    Puma

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    not to sound like an ass, but whats sketchy about a low light handgun class, with a bunch of people that aren't vetted by the instructors/ others in the class is that the risk is heightened ten fold. I've seen experienced guys turn into soup sandwiches in the middle of the day with a small amount of stress added. with that being said i agree with Chris that AMIS is probably the best class for this segment. of course id trust anything that Advantage Group would host/ put out themselves as they have been there and done that.
     

    bigtattoo79

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    not to sound like an ass, but whats sketchy about a low light handgun class, with a bunch of people that aren't vetted by the instructors/ others in the class is that the risk is heightened ten fold. I've seen experienced guys turn into soup sandwiches in the middle of the day with a small amount of stress added. with that being said i agree with Chris that AMIS is probably the best class for this segment. of course id trust anything that Advantage Group would host/ put out themselves as they have been there and done that.

    Has anyone disagreed with classes having prerequisites?
     

    Puma

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    no, not at all, but usually it is the prerequisites that people won't or can't take previous to the low light class, thus its trouble making.

    not being snippy, its the only way i know how to speak
     
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    bigtattoo79

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    no, not at all, but usually it is the prerequisites that people won't or can't take previous to the low light class, thus its trouble making.

    not being snippy, its the only way i know how to speak

    Oh OK. I agree 100% with that rule also.
     

    981GT4

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    I am not sure why more people do not take Low light shooting classes for pistols , especially when having a EDC or one for home defense. On the Law enforcement side most shooting take place either at night, or in low light situations. Statistically last time i checked it was around 60-70%. Not sure on statistics on armed robberies or home invasions , but generally they take place at night as criminal like to use cover of darkness.

    Big, Ill lay out some of the techniques which are generally standard practice for pistol/ handheld light shooting, and which i teach our guys and girls for low light qualifications.

    These have been around for a wile , and you can practice these at home with an unloaded and safe firearm. Each technique is unique and geared toward different situations one may encounter. Practicing them all and becoming comfortable with all of them is generally a good practice.


    (1)Harries Technique
    wBJdgTl.jpg


    The flashlight is held in an ice pick grip while positioning the handgun forward, then crossing the light under the strong hand and placing the backs of the hands against each other to create stabilizing platform. For large flashlights, the body of the flashlight may be rest on your forearm. The thumb or finger operates the on/off switch, whether it is a tail cap push-button or a body mounted button.

    Some issues with this technique to consider are
    Displacement of the beam from point-of-aim during firing, Proximity of hands increases the chance of a hand confusion which could result in an Negligent discharge, Chance of muzzle sweeping the flashlight hand or forearm during employment, or blinding yourself when corning a wall or door area , with beam back of the light.


    (2) Rodgers or "cigar" technique.

    iiNqzwo.jpg

    The flashlight is held between the first and second fingers of the non-firing hand in a "cigar" grip with the tail cap push button resting against the palm/base of thumb. The flashlight is then brought together with the weapon hand and the two unused fingers of the light hand wrap around the gripping fingers of the weapon hand as in a normal two hand firing grip. To activate the light, pressure is exerted to depress the tail cap push button against the palm/base of thumb. This grip may be awkward at first, and takes some practice. I still am not that comfortable with this technique.
    This one does allow for a decent two handed shooting platform, but its worth noting you can only use this position with a small flashlight such as a surefire.


    (3)AYOOB technique

    2DnJGTL.jpg

    This one is my favorite flashlight grip technique. you want to grasp the flashlight in a sword grip with the thumb or any finger on the side-mounted on/off switch, then thrust both the light and the gun out to approximate an isosceles position, with both thumbs touching. The thumb of the flashlight hand is pressed against the thumb of the weapon hand, creating isometric tension that steadies the weapon. This will align the light beam with the muzzle of your pistol, and is very easy to learn.


    Like all hand and pistol grip techniques the light is generally within the center mass of your body. As most would note, when somone is shooting you and they see a light shined at them, its a safe bet that they are going to be shooting at that light source.

    Thats why people invented off body light holding positions.


    FBI technique

    LSio0XP.jpg

    With this technique the flashlight is held in a sword or ice pick grip with the arm extended well away from the body and the gun hand. Often the technique involves extending the arm upward with the flashlight held slightly in front of body so as not to illuminate yourself.

    this technique is emphasized as a way to prevent the flashlight from "marking" your exact position. By moving the light away from your body, an assailant who shot at the light would be less likely to hit you. this technique is very effective for room clearing and dynamic, close quarter’s engagements, as it allows the light to be activated away from the body at varying heights without changing the position of the weapon in the opposite hand.

    It should be noted that you will only be shooting "one Handed" so being proficient in strong hand only shooting is key.



    Neck index technique.

    QPRcCus.jpg

    With this hands-apart technique the flashlight is held in an ice pick grip indexed against the jaw/neck juncture just below the ear, so that it moves in conjunction with the user's head, with minimal blocking of peripheral vision. For tac lights the thumb is placed on the tailcap switch, or if using old-style flashlights, a finger is positioned on the body-mounted switch. For larger flashlights the flashlight body can be rested on the shoulder and indexed against the base of the neck. With either small or large flashlights, the weapon is held in any position, out of contact with flashlight hand or arm.

    Again this is another "one handed" shooting position.



    then what you have commonly now are lights mounted to pistols themselves. This is great for Home defense use. or in Law enforcement engagements at low light. The problem comes when EDC your pistol, it may be hard to conceal the pistol with a tac light attached in a holster.


    Hope this helps, and like i said at the beginning you can practice this at home for free. until you are confident you can go out and do it with a trained instructor.

    Also it would be a good idea if you dont already, have tritium night sights put on your pistol.
     

    kz45

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    I use the AYOOB but hold the light icepick style, I've never taken a low light class but have shot a few night match's


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    981GT4

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    I use the AYOOB but hold the light icepick style, I've never taken a low light class but have shot a few night match's


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    whatever is comfortable, i find swording it is more easy for me.
     

    bigtattoo79

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    981GT4, Thanks for the info definitely gives me something to work on until I get into a lowlight class. I did get a WML but wanna train with a handheld and use the WML as a secondary light or when I'm 100% sure there's a threat.
     

    kz45

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    whatever is comfortable, i find swording it is more easy for me.

    Yea I'm missing most of my thumb, but I have enough to activate a tail switch so I make it work, plus I can strike with the bezel with much more force if need be


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    freedive10

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    It's good to get familiar with all methods. All have pros and cons. It's not until you put it into use that you realize what you think you will use is not what you actually end up using. Found that out at AMIS.
     

    JoeLiberty

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    981GT4, Thanks for the info definitely gives me something to work on until I get into a lowlight class. I did get a WML but wanna train with a handheld and use the WML as a secondary light or when I'm 100% sure there's a threat.

    That's an important distinction. And it's recommended you do carry a handheld light as well. Many people will try to tell you not to use the WML at all b/c 'you don't want to point a gun at your teenager or houseguest coming home late'. While I'm sure people have been shot like that, it's only because of poor (or no) training. IMHO, the WML is not for looking around trying to find anything. WML is for actually shooting in the dark. If my kid lost a toy behind the couch and I pulled out my handgun so I could go looking for it, that'd be pretty damn stupid. Going to the kitchen for a glass of water at night? Don't grab your weapon and start waving it around in the house. Heard a noise in the back yard? Grab a real flashlight.

    I struggled with finding a handheld light that would be any good for shooting and carrying in a pocket. I carry one that's more suited to EDC tasks that I could maybe use to shoot, but it's better for actually looking at and looking for stuff.
    Anyone have a good pocketable light that they like for low-light shooting?
     

    freedive10

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    I struggled with finding a handheld light that would be any good for shooting and carrying in a pocket. I carry one that's more suited to EDC tasks that I could maybe use to shoot, but it's better for actually looking at and looking for stuff.
    Anyone have a good pocketable light that they like for low-light shogoting?

    Lots of good options out there. I have been using the Jetbeam BC10XPG Cree LED for two years now and love it. Small light with LOTS of light and perfect spill. (My opinion)
     

    981GT4

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    That's an important distinction. And it's recommended you do carry a handheld light as well. Many people will try to tell you not to use the WML at all b/c 'you don't want to point a gun at your teenager or houseguest coming home late'. While I'm sure people have been shot like that, it's only because of poor (or no) training. IMHO, the WML is not for looking around trying to find anything. WML is for actually shooting in the dark. If my kid lost a toy behind the couch and I pulled out my handgun so I could go looking for it, that'd be pretty damn stupid. Going to the kitchen for a glass of water at night? Don't grab your weapon and start waving it around in the house. Heard a noise in the back yard? Grab a real flashlight.

    I struggled with finding a handheld light that would be any good for shooting and carrying in a pocket. I carry one that's more suited to EDC tasks that I could maybe use to shoot, but it's better for actually looking at and looking for stuff.
    Anyone have a good pocketable light that they like for low-light shooting?
    I use this light From Surefire. its small enough to fit in your pocket. it feels good in the hands when shooting, have had no issues yet with it. and its bright as hell.
    http://www.surefire.com/illumination/flashlights/g2xle.html
     

    bigtattoo79

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    That's an important distinction. And it's recommended you do carry a handheld light as well. Many people will try to tell you not to use the WML at all b/c 'you don't want to point a gun at your teenager or houseguest coming home late'. While I'm sure people have been shot like that, it's only because of poor (or no) training. IMHO, the WML is not for looking around trying to find anything. WML is for actually shooting in the dark. If my kid lost a toy behind the couch and I pulled out my handgun so I could go looking for it, that'd be pretty damn stupid. Going to the kitchen for a glass of water at night? Don't grab your weapon and start waving it around in the house. Heard a noise in the back yard? Grab a real flashlight.

    I struggled with finding a handheld light that would be any good for shooting and carrying in a pocket. I carry one that's more suited to EDC tasks that I could maybe use to shoot, but it's better for actually looking at and looking for stuff.
    Anyone have a good pocketable light that they like for low-light shooting?

    I've had the same Streamlight ProTac 2L for a couple years now and love it!

    View attachment 67877


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    bigtattoo79

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    I now have a carbine setup with a light, a handgun setup with a light and a handheld light. I'm gonna practice what I can and get in a couple local classes. Big thanks to everyone who offered advice!

    View attachment 67900
     
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