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Thread: Legal definition of "CONCEALED" ???

  1. #41
    Butthole charlie12's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nolacopusmc View Post
    LOL It is the thought that counts.
    The bad part was the we got to the Casino about 7:30am and the damn Casino didn't open until 11am. Went to Ihop and then sat in Esplanade Mall parking lot and watched the planes pass overhead. It was a good wide open space for a good field of fire incase I had to put my Sig back together.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The problems we face today are
    there because the people who work
    for a living are outnumbered by those
    who vote for a living.




  2. #42
    Warrior in God's Army OneStory's Avatar
    Heck, I really like the "new" more polite Nolacop!

    I am trying to stir things up...you got me, copper.

    With the recent CHP law changes, I been thinking about the whole unconstitutional mess.

    I'd love to attend your class. I know it would be worth my time and you can use me as an example to your students...albeit a bad one!

    Maybe we can have a competitive "shoot off" at the end of class and we will see if I can beat you this time. You know I let you win the VATA thing...
    A calm in the midst of a storm...

    Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. - Gandalf

    I'm beginning to think that the "good guys" will probably have beaten each other up over their perceived differences before the "bad guys" even attack.
    ...that just may be their plan...ya think?

  3. #43
    Marksman biggie1447's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by DAVE_M View Post
    To my knowledge, concealing long arms is illegal. Louisiana has concealed handgun permits. However, some states have concealed weapons permits.
    if concealing a long arm in a tennis raquet case is illegal then what makes carrying one in a standard gun case legal?

    im not trying to be argumentative or anything, i am just curious and would like to know.

  4. #44
    Warrior in God's Army OneStory's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by biggie1447 View Post
    if concealing a long arm in a tennis raquet case is illegal then what makes carrying one in a standard gun case legal?

    im not trying to be argumentative or anything, i am just curious and would like to know.
    It depends on the "intent".
    A calm in the midst of a storm...

    Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. - Gandalf

    I'm beginning to think that the "good guys" will probably have beaten each other up over their perceived differences before the "bad guys" even attack.
    ...that just may be their plan...ya think?

  5. #45
    Banned
    Quote Originally Posted by biggie1447 View Post
    if concealing a long arm in a tennis raquet case is illegal then what makes carrying one in a standard gun case legal?

    im not trying to be argumentative or anything, i am just curious and would like to know.
    Because you are not bothering to read the law. The key element to illegally carrying a concealed weapon is "intentional concealment" "on one's person".

    While a briefcase or a purse COULD be considered on one's person, a case is customarily used to carry a firearm. Once again, it would depend on the circumstances. Going to the range= OK. Going to kill you landlord= illegal carrying.

    If people would stop trying to be so literal and exact and use the same common sense and situational relevancy that a cop, DA, judge, and jury would use, these questions would answer themselves.

    Keeping mind, that it is still ultimately up to how a jury of human beings interpret the evidence presented based on how well the attorney's articulate the alleged facts.


    Remember that at the end of the day, the truth is whatever the better attorney can convience the jury .
    Last edited by Nolacopusmc; July 16th, 2010 at 12:20 AM.

  6. #46
    Banned
    Quote Originally Posted by OneStory View Post
    Heck, I really like the "new" more polite Nolacop!

    I am trying to stir things up...you got me, copper.

    With the recent CHP law changes, I been thinking about the whole unconstitutional mess.

    I'd love to attend your class. I know it would be worth my time and you can use me as an example to your students...albeit a bad one!

    Maybe we can have a competitive "shoot off" at the end of class and we will see if I can beat you this time. You know I let you win the VATA thing...

    LOL. People seem to be nice to me in competitions like that often.

  7. #47
    Warrior in God's Army OneStory's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco View Post
    kind of off topic from the thread but it got me thinking about something

    if you took apart a gun, which parts would be illegal to carry concealed?

    could you carry all the parts at the same time without a CHP? if not, which parts would be legal to carry?
    careful...someone will accuse you of "what if"ing it...
    A calm in the midst of a storm...

    Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. - Gandalf

    I'm beginning to think that the "good guys" will probably have beaten each other up over their perceived differences before the "bad guys" even attack.
    ...that just may be their plan...ya think?

  8. #48
    HONKY madmax4x4's Avatar
    What if you are out with your accordion and you are OC'ing but your monkey is covering your gun? What if you are CC'ing with out a permit but you are wearing a suit made from saran wrap?

    Use common sense, if you want to waste your money on attorney fees because of a play on words fine. But it is not hard to understand.

    con·ceal/kənˈsēl/Verb
    1. Keep from sight; hide.
    2. Keep (something) secret; prevent from being known or noticed: "love that they had to conceal from others".

    open . In or into public view or knowledge

    open carry is shorthand terminology for "openly carrying a firearm in public", as distinguished from concealed carry, where firearms cannot be seen by the casual observer.

    Visual
    concealed weapon.jpg
    concealed
    open carry2.jpg
    Open
    Last edited by madmax4x4; July 19th, 2010 at 05:03 PM.

  9. #49
    Banned
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco View Post
    what if'ing it? how about .... what if the gun was broken? is it still illegal to keep in your pocket?
    Yes. EVen if it is unloaded. Even if it is broken. Even on Mondays. Even on Tuesdays. Even during Lent. Even on a full moon. Even when the Saints play at home. Even if you paint it clear and call it an Iphone.

    Don't do it. Why try to figure out a way around it?


    Generally the serialized component, IE the frame on a pistol and the receiver on most rifles is what is legally considered "the gun"

    So you can carry a pocket full of gun barrels, but no frames.
    Last edited by Nolacopusmc; July 19th, 2010 at 05:44 PM.

  10. #50
    Marksman

    Premium Member
    I have to apologize. Years back when researching OC in LA, I SWEAR I came across the "visible from 3 sides" rule but damned if I can find it now! If it exists anywhere, it is well hidden and not in the main body of the law regarding OC/CHP so scratch that and I certainly won't spread it anymore. The bad thing is, it is a nice, clean, easy to understand definition of "visible" for the purpose of the rule and it is NOT used!

  11. #51
    Dysfunctional Vet tea333's Avatar
    Would "printing" violate the law for concealed carry?
    SI VIS PACEM , PARABELLUM
    "If you seek peace, prepare for war"

  12. #52
    LA CHP Instructor # 522 Guate_shooter's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by tea333 View Post
    Would "printing" violate the law for concealed carry?
    Depends on the state, TEXAS would hang you from ur sack for it LOL!

  13. #53
    Banned

    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by tea333 View Post
    Would "printing" violate the law for concealed carry?
    Legally no. But would get you unwanted attention possibly.

  14. #54
    Warrior in God's Army OneStory's Avatar
    What a screwed up mess of things! We have so many messed up laws that it would take years just to find and get rid of them.

    I say we give our lawmakers a year off with pay if they do absolutely nothing. The next year they are only allowed to get rid of laws. The next year, we fire them all and start over with year one again...
    A calm in the midst of a storm...

    Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. - Gandalf

    I'm beginning to think that the "good guys" will probably have beaten each other up over their perceived differences before the "bad guys" even attack.
    ...that just may be their plan...ya think?

  15. #55
    LA CHP Instructor # 522 Guate_shooter's Avatar
    Louisiana doesn't have anything legally that specifies "Printing", but at the same time it could be a disadvantage to let the BG know you are carrying and it would be a magnet for those people who like to complain a lot about nothing.

    Kinna like the guy who got kicked out of Walmart for OC, if you were to carry lets say in an OWB holster and eventhough most of it its being covered by your shirt but the bottom 2 inches of that holster sticks out and it prints as a "weapon" you would be on the same boat as this guy being escorted out since they worry about the "safety" of their costumers. (sack of crap if u ask me)

  16. #56
    Marksman

    Premium Member
    Before "Shall Issue" when I got my LA State Permit, I had found a great clear definition that stated to be considered not concealed, it had to be visible from 3 sides and readily identifiable as a gun and that a holster, even the old army flap type, could NOT be considered concealment. I went looking for that document and have not been able to find it to save my life! I am wondering if that was an Arkansas CCW law and I got it confused. I need to find that cite again... That is the kind of thing that makes it plainly clear as to what is meant or not by concealed.

  17. #57
    On Target 12secHemi's Avatar
    To me, concealment is a practice. Every time I go out armed, (which is always) I check myself in the mirror to make sure my attire isn't printing. I practice to make my firearm invisible. Having said that, I don't freak out if the wind picks up my shirt a bit and exposes the holster clip (IWB). I've been carrying for a whole 2 years now (!) the only firearm I haven't been able to conceal to my satisfaction was the Kimber 1911with 5" barrel that my Glock replaced.
    Hollowpoints. When you care enough to send the very best.

    Chuck Norris once fornicated with an entire convent of nuns. The result was the 1972 Miami Dolphins.

  18. #58
    Marksman

    Premium Member
    Problems only arise for those who like to live life in the "grey" area. If you can avoid the grey areas then why not try to do so?

  19. #59
    Banned Yrdawg's Avatar
    Horse sense from Nolacop.....I have been using his quote ..( more or less ) ,,a lot on people that work at a black and white , can and can't , version of the RS on guns

    " You won't be tried by the law, you will be tried by 12 dumass's and a cranky old man "

    LOL....kinda took liberty with his quote but you get the point

    It's not about law, it's about a system...pay attention to what works and go with that or be able to afford a really good moufpiece

  20. #60
    Banned
    Quote Originally Posted by bayoutrigger View Post
    Problems only arise for those who like to live life in the "grey" area. If you can avoid the grey areas then why not try to do so?
    I see what you are trying to say, but you have it a little backwards IMO.


    I discuss this in everyone of my classes:

    Life is lived in the grey area. There is very little that is clearly defined in the black and white area, especially in the justice system. If we consider white to be the "100%, unequivocally, no doubt in anyone's mind, so easy a first grader can see it is right, even the Dems would agree".", and black to be the "100% even the ACLU would say it is wrong no doubt illegal", then 99.99% of our life is lived in the grey area.

    The trick to the grey area is that everything in the grey area is legal; however, the closer you get to the black end of the line, the more questionable, while still legal, your actions become. When you are too close to the black end of grey, you have to answer questions with:

    "Well, technically......"
    "According to the letter of the law....."

    When you constantly live your life on the line between black and grey, you run the risk of still being held legally accountable for grey actions, which are still "technically" legal, when viewed through the interpretive eyes of human beings.

    Your goal is to live in the grey area as close to the white end of the line as you can. When you go to trial for shooting the person who was trying to kill you, your goal is to make sure your actions, statements, behavior, lifestyle, etc., make those 12 people in the jury box mutter to themselves, "i would have shot that SOB 10 minutes sooner."

    When your actions are closer to the black end of grey, then the "technically legal" aspect of it requires interpretation. People start looking at what you did from the context of it boarding on illegal, rather than bordering on saintly.

    Look at a use of force incident as a boxing match. You want to go for the knock-out, you never want it to go to the judges, because judges can be wrong or simply do not see things your way. Being closer to the right is a KO. Being closer to the black makes it go to the judges--the 12 jurors.


    A lot of people spend a lot of time trying to figure out how closely they can skirt the law while still remaining "technically legal" Remember, there is no scientific test to determine innocence or guilt. People, human beings, who care fallible through ignorance, prejudice, and emotion will determine your fate.

    Granted, circumstances will not always allow for that textbook perfect use of force scenario where AMerica's #2 most wanted kicks in your door in the middle of the night with flamethrower, machine gun, and starts shooting at you while wearing a necklace of dead babies, making it an unquestionable good shoot. However, when that time comes, you want to make sure all of your actions and statements are beyond reproach in judgement, intent, and legality.

    You will never do that by always looking for the "technical" answer to the law. You must go with what would 9/10 average, non-gun enthusiast people think of what you did. To the average man or woman, were your actions in the box or out the box.

    Many times people look for that one element that will make their actions legal although otherwise criminal...the technicality. That makes it very easy for the prosecution to figure out a way to dismiss or negate that one little technicality and then everything else you did was already covered by statute so you are guilty.\

    You want to flip the script and make them find the one little technicality that may make what you did illegal, "technically". It will be much harder for a jury, after putting themselves in your shoes, to find you guilty if it is based on some little "technicality", then it will be for them to find you innocent because of some little technicality.


    You live in the grey. Accept it. Learn to operate in it. Be comfortable in it.
    Last edited by Nolacopusmc; August 7th, 2010 at 09:49 PM.

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