Tell me about this US Army Colt 1911

Several have posted over last couple of months asking how to ID the
M1911A1 Govt 45 Auto, as in "I've got one, who made the darn thing?"
Good question since the frame usually just says "GOVERNMENT MODEL" or
"UNITED STATES PROPERTY M 1911 A1 U.S.ARMY"...or some such.

I'm certainly no Govt 45 expert but I dug up some info, maybe it will
help....but first a bit of history.

World War I production: Four (4) manufacturers made M1911 pistols that
actually saw use during the war years:

* Colt
* Remington-UMC
* Springfield Armory (U.S. Government owned & operated)
* North American Arms Co. of Quebec (just a VERY FEW)

Seven (7) manufacturers were tooling up to produce M1911 pistols but
the Armistice stopped it all and program was cancelled:

* National Cash Register Co.
* Savage Arms Co.
* Caron Bros. of Montreal
* Burroughs Adding Machine Co.
* Winchester Repeating Arms Co.
* Lanston Monotype Co.
* Savage Munitions Co.

World War II production: five (5) manufacturers made the M1911A1
pistol:

* Colt
* Ithaca
* Remington-Rand
* Union Switch & Signal
* Singer Sewing Machine Co. (approx. 500)

The problem with ID'ing M1911A1's is that parts are totally
interchange- able, and during the lives of many examples their slides
were many times switched or replaced. Since the slide is the only part
actually marked with the manufacturer's name, you can see the problem
that arises.

The following taken from an article by Charles W. Karwan in the 3/1/95
issue of Classic Firearms will shed some light.

"All is not lost, however. The guns themselves can help you reveal
which company made the pistol's frame. First, if you encounter an
M1911A1 - identified by the finger cutouts and/or the M1911A1
markings on the frame - and it has a slide made by Remington-UMC,
Springfield or Savage, you know the slide is not original to the
gun since the first two manufacturers only made M1911 pistols
during WWI, and the latter only made M1911 slides.

The slide is also not original if it has a drawing number on the
side, usually 7790314. These are replacement slides made long after
WWII by Colt and SanColMar. The same is true if the slide is marked
Drake - the company that built National Match slides for the
government.

Looking at the pistol's frame, here are some rules to help you
identify its maker:

1. The presence of VP proofmark in a triangle at the left front of
the triggerguard; a GHD inspector marking or an M1911A1 marking
with- out any spaces between the figures indicates an M1911A1
manufactured by Colt.

2. A serial number preceded by an "S" indicates an M1911A1 manufact-
ured by Singer _(not many of these around - an understatement)_

3. A serial number preceded by a "NO" instead of a "No" indicates
manufacture by Remington-Rand.

4. An RCD inspector mark or double spacing between the M and 1911A1
indicates manufacture by Union Switch and Signal.

5. A geometric-shape proofmark, like a triangle, arrowhead or such,
on the front left of triggerguard indicates an M1911A1 made by
Ithaca.

6. An "X" prefix to the serial number indicates a gun that has been
re-serial numbered by ordnance, and the maker is neither
identifiable or relevant.

These rules will not allow you to identify every single frame you
en- counter, but the will suffice for 99 percent of them."

BTW, when M1911A1 pistols were rebuilt a military facility they were
rebuilt without any regard to the maker of the frame, slide or other
parts...mix 'n match, first in - last out, whatever was expedient to
get the pistol in and out was the rule of thumb. Any such rebuilds
will normally be stamped with a code indicating the facility that did
the work. It might be any of the following (and there may have been
others not shown):

AAA - Anniston Army Depot AA - Augusta Arsenal
OG - Ogden Arsenal MR - Mt. Rainier Ordnance Depot
RA - Raritan Arsenal RR - Red River Arsenal
RIA - Rock Island Arsenal SAA - San Antonio Arsenal
SA - Springfield Armory BA - Benecia Arsenal

Anyway, hope some of this is of help to someone out there.

Robert Gibson

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I'm not a 1911 expert by any means. The serial number puts at least the frame in a 1919 production. It looks the main spring housing and beaver tail have been replaced with A1 parts. It's probably refinished but if it's not that's amazing (this is something I really don't know much about though).

At best it's a mostly original early 1911 with a couple A1 parts that should still be worth a good bit. At worst it's built from a mis-match of Colt parts and makes for a fun shooter.

Again I'm not 100% on any of this since I'm not much of a historical firearms person. I'm interested to see what someone more knowledgeable says about it too.

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I thought Miso Beno's emoticon had to do with the possibility that that 1911 is a transitional model, but I heard that Transitionals officially started at 700001 for the serial, so

It's definitely an old as hell gun, with features of the Transitionals, and looks to be in pretty damned good condition.

e: so a super-rare pre-Transitional but post original-1911 spec?

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aroundlsu said:

Can anyone tell me if this is an original US Army 1911 made in 1919? I did some basic googling and discovered that some 1911s that look just like this one were sold in the 60s from spare parts, however this one doesn't have the marks on it that those do. If it's original, what is the approximate value based on it's condition?

I am not interested in selling. Just gathering information. I always wanted an original 1911 and now it looks like I might have one.

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