Abbeville gun law???

charlie12 · Dec 9, 2012

I was reading a thread on the LOCAL forum and ran across someone asking about the local gun law in Abbeville. Doesn't this butt head with La. Preemption? Looks like the date on it was (Ord. No. 86-01, 7-15-86

http://library.municode.com/HTML/10339/level3/PTIITHCOOR_CH13OFIS_ARTIIOFAGPU.html#PTIITHCOOR_CH13OFIS_ARTIIOFAGPU_S13-21ILPOFI

jmcrawf1 · Dec 9, 2012

Yep, that's a goofy ordinance.

Bill Baldwin · Dec 10, 2012

It appears it is in violation of state law RS 40:1796 and is in contradiction to the state constitution. It's surprising that no one has challenged that law.

§1796. Preemption of state law

A. No governing authority of a political subdivision shall enact after July 15, 1985, any ordinance or regulation more restrictive than state law concerning in any way the sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transfer, transportation, license, or registration of firearms, ammunition, or components of firearms or ammunition; however, this Section shall not apply to the levy and collection of sales and use taxes, license fees and taxes and permit fees, nor shall it affect the authority of political subdivisions to prohibit the possession of a weapon or firearm in certain commercial establishments and public buildings.

cajun_64 · Dec 10, 2012

I don't think it violates 40:1796 since it allows it in your residence and or business. Which kind of contradicts your transporting it to either location.

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or possess on his person, whether concealed or not, any pistol, handgun, rifle, shotgun or other firearm. Provided, however, that the provisions of this section shall not apply to any law enforcement official engaged in the exercise of his official duties; nor shall it apply if the person possessing or carrying the firearm is located within the structural confines of his residence or business establishment.

I am not sure on the Conceal carry laws or the new Constitutional ammendment.

I am not sure they even know it is on the books, with all the shootings in Abbeville lately I have never seen that listed as a charge.
IMHO. YMMV

charlie12 · Dec 10, 2012

cajun_64 said:
I don't think it violates 40:1796 since it allows it in your residence and or business. Which kind of contradicts your transporting it to either location.

I can't see how it doesn't violate RS 40:1796 with the date of 7-15-86

cajun_64 · Dec 10, 2012

carry or possess on his person, whether concealed or not

I am not a lawyer, I just thought this was strictly a carry issue. Which the RS 40:1796 does not state carry, as it does all other aspects of gun ownership.

I do not agree with the ordinance by any means and considering there are at least 1 possibly more CCL instructors in the city makes it kind of funny.
Just my thoughts. One of our legal representatives on the boards could give an opinion worth a whole lot more than mine.

I'd try to ask someone in the city system, but don't really know who to get a right answer from. I've seen how they answer electrical questions first hand and their answer on this would probably be as helpful.(as in no help at all)

oleheat · Dec 10, 2012

Uh, wut? Did they draft this after borrowing ordinances from some city in California? :doh:

So what do they do during duck season? Sneak out of their homes? :dogkeke:

That's beyond stupid.

charlie12 · Dec 10, 2012

cajun_64 said:
I am not a lawyer, I just thought this was strictly a carry issue. Which the RS 40:1796 does not state carry, as it does all other aspects of gun ownership.

I do not agree with the ordinance by any means and considering there are at least 1 possibly more CCL instructors in the city makes it kind of funny.
Just my thoughts. One of our legal representatives on the boards could give an opinion worth a whole lot more than mine.

I'd try to ask someone in the city system, but don't really know who to get a right answer from. I've seen how they answer electrical questions first hand and their answer on this would probably be as helpful.(as in no help at all)

Try the City Attorney, ask him/her to read LRS 40:1796 and his City ordinance and see what they say. Maybe they have motorcycle money ready.

Storm52 · Dec 10, 2012

How do you get a new gun from the shop to your home?

Bill Baldwin · Dec 11, 2012

cajun_64 said:
I am not a lawyer, I just thought this was strictly a carry issue. Which the RS 40:1796 does not state carry, as it does all other aspects of gun ownership.[...]

§1796. Preemption of state law

A. No governing authority of a political subdivision shall enact after July 15, 1985, any ordinance or regulation more restrictive than state law concerning in any way the sale, purchase, possession, [...]

I'm sure possession, includes on the person. The Attorney General has already made an opinion about laws against open carry.

It is the opinion of this office that the state statutes aforementioned (RS 14:95) have the purpose of establishing a general scheme to control weapons (handguns) and that a fair reading of those statutes show this would constitute an area in which the state has preempted the legislative control and has implicitly authorized the carrying of unconcealed weapons. [...] Sincerely William J. Guste, Jr. Attorney General

I'm not a lawyer, your mileage may vary, etc.

You can find that document at http://www.ag.state.la.us/Opinions.aspx search term "78-0795"

Dustin-R · Dec 11, 2012

I brought this up to the Mayor of Abbeville this morning and asked him to look into it with the City attourney. I will keep ya'll posted when he lets me know.

charlie12 · Dec 11, 2012

Dustin-R said:
I brought this up to the Mayor of Abbeville this morning and asked him to look into it with the City attourney. I will keep ya'll posted when he lets me know.

Thanks

Dustin-R · Dec 12, 2012

Well the answer I got was a politicians answer. I was told that the city attourney said he knew about the ordinance and that it would cost more money than it was worth to remove the ordinance. He also said that if by some off chance someone would get charged with this it would get thrown out. Thats all I got. Any body is welcome to call city hall and ask to speak to Mayor Mark Piazza if you have further questions .

City of Abbeville
P. O. Box 1170
Abbeville, LA 70511
Phone: 337-893-8550
Fax: 337-898-4298

Pacioli · Dec 12, 2012

Dustin-R said:
Well the answer I got was a politicians answer. I was told that the city attourney said he knew about the ordinance and that it would cost more money than it was worth to remove the ordinance. He also said that if by some off chance someone would get charged with this it would get thrown out.

A perfect example of how politicians earn the contempt that is heaped upon them.

The City Attorney thinks that keeping a bad/unconstitutional law on the books is a dollar decision. Typical.

And how much does he think it will cost the taxpayers when some MEM type takes them to court and wins because the city officials knowingly let an unconstitutional law remain on the books just waiting for an overzealous, under-educated police officer to step in the trap?

How much does it cost to have a councilman introduce an ordinance repealing an ordinance and having the others say "aye?" Next to nothing I think. Hell, the way most councils throw proposed legislation around you would think they're printed on perforated paper and packaged on cardboard rolls.

So he thinks the charges would be dropped? That still means some poor fella is out money for bond, attorney fees, etc. And pissed off for being humiliated in an unlawful arrest. Cue the MEM check writer.

And who would drop the charges?
-Does the City Attorney propose to not prosecute an arrest that is clearly within the purview of this law? That sounds like more than prosecutorial discretion to me!
-A judge? So now, in addition to the arrest, some guy is dragged into court, with additional lawyer fees to boot? Cue a larger MEM check writer.

Finally, how much will it cost the city to defend itself in court after this ****-bomb explodes?

Great bunch of public servants.

cajun_64 · Dec 12, 2012

Pacioli said:
A perfect example of how politicians earn the contempt that is heaped upon them.

The City Attorney thinks that keeping a bad/unconstitutional law on the books is a dollar decision. Typical.

And how much does he think it will cost the taxpayers when some MEM type takes them to court and wins because the city officials knowingly let an unconstitutional law remain on the books just waiting for an overzealous, under-educated police officer to step in the trap?

How much does it cost to have a councilman introduce an ordinance repealing an ordinance and having the others say "aye?" Next to nothing I think. Hell, the way most councils throw proposed legislation around you would think they're printed on perforated paper and packaged on cardboard rolls.

So he thinks the charges would be dropped? That still means some poor fella is out money for bond, attorney fees, etc. And pissed off for being humiliated in an unlawful arrest. Cue the MEM check writer.

And who would drop the charges?
-Does the City Attorney propose to not prosecute an arrest that is clearly within the purview of this law? That sounds like more than prosecutorial discretion to me!
-A judge? So now, in addition to the arrest, some guy is dragged into court, with additional lawyer fees to boot? Cue a larger MEM check writer.

Finally, how much will it cost the city to defend itself in court after this ****-bomb explodes?

Great bunch of public servants.

The City attorney is not the District Attorney, IIRC. The District Attorney will do his own thing more than likely.

However, as I said previously, with as many shootings this year(and there has been way too many) No one has been charged with this offense, AFAIK.

Pacioli · Dec 12, 2012

cajun_64 said:
The City attorney is not the District Attorney, IIRC. The District Attorney will do his own thing more than likely.

However, as I said previously, with as many shootings this year(and there has been way too many) No one has been charged with this offense, AFAIK.

I see the distinction now (city atty vs DA) now, thanks.

I still think the right thing to do is to take down the law. I'm just one of those black and white guys. If you know you have an illegal law on the books, correct the issue. Politicians believe in expediency so they leave it alone until it explodes.

charlie12 · Dec 12, 2012

Pacioli said:
I see the distinction now (city atty vs DA) now, thanks.

I still think the right thing to do is to take down the law. I'm just one of those black and white guys. If you know you have an illegal law on the books, correct the issue. Politicians believe in expediency so they leave it alone until it explodes.

I agree get rid of the bad law or get the MEM check writer to get his pen out.

Dustin-R · Dec 12, 2012

If they are not gonna worry about it I will just wait to get charged with it then pick out a new Motorcycle. :x:

Gerberman · Dec 15, 2012

They want to keep it on the books "just in case" they need to bust someone for it and on the off chance the poor sap doesn't challenge it or have a lawyer that knows to challenge it. Good idea would be to alert the local public defenders office. They are much more likely to run across someone charged with this.

Cajun Camper · Dec 15, 2012

Remember this is Abbeville. Who knows what went thru their head when this was put on the books. Good luck getting a straight answer out of Mark or any Politician. I was born & raised there so I know of what I speak.

Abbeville gun law???

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