Aug 1st

The Best online firearms community in Louisiana.

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • geoney

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jun 1, 2011
    796
    16
    Lake Charles
    Unless there is a provision in the "New" Louisiana Statute that says implementation is allowable to be delayed for "ATF" someone could sue somebody on August 1, and win!

    No they can not. The change in the statute simply allowed for the process. Kind of how the new lifetime permits "were a "law", but they were a few weeks behind on rolling that out.

    The "process" requires ATF approval after determining state compliance. The state has done all they can do and have met the obligation of Act 221. You can read in the last paragraph of the ACT where it states that it is "pursuant to atf...."

    http://www.legis.la.gov/legis/ViewDocument.aspx?d=908212&n=HB1066 Act



    NICS is a different system than a regular LEA "background check". LEO have access to state and local databases and NCIC, which is not the same as NICS.
     

    Emperor

    Seriously Misunderstood!
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Mar 7, 2011
    8,376
    113
    Nether region
    No they can not. The change in the statute simply allowed for the process. Kind of how the new lifetime permits "were a "law", but they were a few weeks behind on rolling that out.

    The "process" requires ATF approval after determining state compliance. The state has done all they can do and have met the obligation of Act 221. You can read in the last paragraph of the ACT where it states that it is "pursuant to atf...."

    Doesn't this reply constitute a "provision"?
     

    Hattrick 22

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Aug 13, 2011
    1,653
    38
    Kenner, Louisiana
    Well that's a nice step for responsible gun owners.

    I can see some shops just going ahead and calling anyway instead of asking for the ccw though.
     

    kingfhb

    NRA & USCCA INST. w/ LSP#
    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0
    Mar 28, 2014
    3,060
    38
    New Orleans, LA
    Well that's a nice step for responsible gun owners.

    I can see some shops just going ahead and calling anyway instead of asking for the ccw though.

    I can see some calling in based on profiling... definitely. I can also see some counterfeiting of CCW permits too.

    I know I've seen some people go into stores with a "THUG" look (no specific race either...) wanting to purchase a weapon... somehow they always end up leaving upset and yelling things like "I AIN'T NEVVA BEEN ARRESTED!", "WHY DEY DENY ME??", "WHY I GOTTA DELAY?", "I AIN'T NEVVA SHOPPING HERE AGAIN!".

    Funny how that happens. I think it should be the stores discretion... they can identify things like someone purchasing a weapon for someone else illegally just by the things that are said in the store or the way they act... or falsifying documents, etc.

    Every store I am sure also reserves the right to deny anyone from a sale at any time for any reason.
     

    geoney

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jun 1, 2011
    796
    16
    Lake Charles
    I can see some calling in based on profiling... definitely. I can also see some counterfeiting of CCW permits too.

    I know I've seen some people go into stores with a "THUG" look (no specific race either...) wanting to purchase a weapon... somehow they always end up leaving upset and yelling things like "I AIN'T NEVVA BEEN ARRESTED!", "WHY DEY DENY ME??", "WHY I GOTTA DELAY?", "I AIN'T NEVVA SHOPPING HERE AGAIN!".

    Funny how that happens. I think it should be the stores discretion... they can identify things like someone purchasing a weapon for someone else illegally just by the things that are said in the store or the way they act... or falsifying documents, etc.

    Every store I am sure also reserves the right to deny anyone from a sale at any time for any reason.

    This is true. Kind of how some FFL's WILL not release a firearm after three days of no response. They will hold it until a response is received one way or the other. That is their right. I would assume the same is true with the use of CHP in lieu of NICS. They can still run NICS if they want.
     

    Emperor

    Seriously Misunderstood!
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Mar 7, 2011
    8,376
    113
    Nether region
    Some of you are missing the point of the new law. It was pushed as a convenience for CHP holders, not store owners. I guess it could be convenient for them as well; but it wasn't about them as a Bill in the Legislature. And unless I am incorrect on that, there is going to be some unintended consequences when the guy at Academy tells the CHP holder he STILL has to wait while he runs the 4473 despite the new arrangement! I didn't see it as a choice for the retailer to decide at the time. Then you would be leaving the door open for potential discrimination.

    :dunno:
     

    geoney

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jun 1, 2011
    796
    16
    Lake Charles
    Some of you are missing the point of the new law. It was pushed as a convenience for CHP holders, not store owners. I guess it could be convenient for them as well; but it wasn't about them as a Bill in the Legislature. And unless I am incorrect on that, there is going to be some unintended consequences when the guy at Academy tells the CHP holder he STILL has to wait while he runs the 4473 despite the new arrangement! I didn't see it as a choice for the retailer to decide at the time. Then you would be leaving the door open for potential discrimination.

    :dunno:

    A gun store is still a private business. ATF will ALWAYS back the FFL holder for more conservative decisions. I have been in Academy when they denied a sale because a father was buying a rifle for his son. Seems ridiculous, but that is part of their policy. They take a very stern approach to "straw purchases" to CYA.

    Likewise, an FFL can refuse a sell for ANY reason they want - they smell alcohol, the person sounds like they are doing a straw purchase, pretty much anything other than "because he was black.", and even then, it would be a civil issue.

    The law was intended to assist CHP holders, but that does not mean a business HAS to honor it. Kind of like Tax free weekends. A business can still choose to collect taxes. It is an option.
     

    mpl006

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 4, 2011
    386
    16
    Ruston
    Went to an indoor range/store a few weeks ago and was talking to the lady that her and her husband had just bought the place and said something about the new law and her response was "I'm not going to do that. I'm still calling it in. I don't want that person to have just robbed a store and shot someone and then come in here and want to buy a new gun to replace their old one. I don't want that on our FFL!" I told my dad when I left, I will use the free trip card I got and I probably wont step foot in that store again. Not because they will call in the 4473, I couldn't care less, like said before, it doesn't add that much time, but because of the sheer stupidity for the reason why. I should have told her that I didn't know that NICS was able to see the future and solve crimes that had just happened.

    I am curious how they will know if a CHP is valid or not.
     

    LACamper

    oldbie
    Premium Member
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jun 3, 2007
    8,629
    48
    Metairie, LA
    This sure seems like a lot of unnecessary ******** just to save 5 minutes at the gun store!

    You could always just let them run the 4473 as usual and spend the extra 5 minutes telling the counter guy why a .45 has more knockdown power than a .9mm. :D

    I don't care about the extra 5 minutes. I don't trust the current FBI to not keep my info on what gun I buy.
     

    geoney

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jun 1, 2011
    796
    16
    Lake Charles
    Went to an indoor range/store a few weeks ago and was talking to the lady that her and her husband had just bought the place and said something about the new law and her response was "I'm not going to do that. I'm still calling it in. I don't want that person to have just robbed a store and shot someone and then come in here and want to buy a new gun to replace their old one. I don't want that on our FFL!" I told my dad when I left, I will use the free trip card I got and I probably wont step foot in that store again. Not because they will call in the 4473, I couldn't care less, like said before, it doesn't add that much time, but because of the sheer stupidity for the reason why. I should have told her that I didn't know that NICS was able to see the future and solve crimes that had just happened.

    I am curious how they will know if a CHP is valid or not.

    Same way they know if any other ID is valid or not- judge it against know valid ones. While the CHp is pretty simple, it is Highly unlikely someone will go through that trouble.
     

    mpl006

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 4, 2011
    386
    16
    Ruston
    Same way they know if any other ID is valid or not- judge it against know valid ones. While the CHp is pretty simple, it is Highly unlikely someone will go through that trouble.

    I was more meaning if it was suspended, not counterfeit.
     

    geoney

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jun 1, 2011
    796
    16
    Lake Charles
    I was more meaning if it was suspended, not counterfeit.

    Good point. No system is perfewct, but this kind of follows the adage of "Better 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be executed."
     

    met7881

    Former Yankee
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 26, 2013
    132
    18
    mandeville,La.
    I was informed yesterday while browsing at Arms Merchant in mandeville, the the CCW Nics exemption applies only to CCW issued after 8/1/14. CCW issued prior to 8/1/14 still require a Nics check. Has anyone else heard of this. Apparently this is what LSP is informing FFL's.
     

    geoney

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jun 1, 2011
    796
    16
    Lake Charles
    I was informed yesterday while browsing at Arms Merchant in mandeville, the the CCW Nics exemption applies only to CCW issued after 8/1/14. CCW issued prior to 8/1/14 still require a Nics check. Has anyone else heard of this. Apparently this is what LSP is informing FFL's.

    LSP does not inform FFL's/ ATF informs FFL's. Nothing has been passed from ATF yet. WHile that sounds completely plausible, most FFL's know that they receive direction from ATF, not LSP.
     
    Top Bottom