Legal definition of "CONCEALED" ???

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  • oleheat

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    Not sure if this helps you guys, but this is a document from Micha's site. It was from the AG's office, and delt with open VS concealed carry.....

    In State vs Fluker, 311 So.2d 863 (1975), the defendant had been
    arrested for carrying a handgun in a holster on his hip. The weapon was
    exposed except for that portion in the holster, and it was fully recognizable
    as a weapon. The LOUISIANA Supreme Court, in reversing Fluker's conviction,
    stated that 'by making the offense of concealment a crime of specific intent,
    the legislature has abandoned the old rule that a partially hidden weapon is a
    concealed weapon in favor of a more realistic proscription that contemplates
    that a weapon, although not in 'full open view,' is nonetheless not a concealed
    weapon, if it is sufficiently exposed to reveal its identity.
    If the weapon is carried in a manner that reveals its identity, its carrier
    cannot be presumed to have intended to conceal it and, accordingly, is not in
    violation of the statute ...... The appropriate test to be applied in
    prosecutions for illegal carrying of weapons is whether, under the facts and
    circumstances of the case as disclosed by the evidence, the manner in which
    defendant carried the weapon revealed an intent to conceal its identity.'


    http://louisianacarry.org/laws/Attorney%20General's%20opinion%20on%20open%20carry.doc
     

    spanky

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    I've taken to carrying gun and knife with just a clip showing.
    My untucked and unbuttoned shirt only reveals those clips from certain angles.
    If you are really looking and know what to look for, you might figure it out.
    Legally, I'm not carrying concealed. Therefore, I am carrying open, right?

    Don't bet your life on it.
     

    kcinnick

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    I was told by a very pro gun cop that if you were OC'ing without a permit and any part of clothing was covering any part of your gun he had enough cause to arrest you. He believed that it would not ultimately result in a conviction, but he is not a judge, jury or prosecutor. I would just be sure you are either clearly OC'ing if that's your thing or do what I do, make sure concealed means concealed.
     

    bs875

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    I've taken to carrying gun and knife with just a clip showing.
    My untucked and unbuttoned shirt only reveals those clips from certain angles.

    No joy nazis going to jump him for calling them "clips"? We have progressed.

    To quote the Spankster, "concealed means concealed". If you're OC'ing then it should be very obvious. Ask MEM or JD how to do it.
     

    oleheat

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    Sometimes it sucks when you stop and think about how the burden of EVERYTHING always falls squarely on the shoulders of those the least likely to break the law in the first place.

    C'est La Vie, I guess. :confused:
     

    herohog

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    I was told by a very pro gun cop that if you were OC'ing without a permit and any part of clothing was covering any part of your gun he had enough cause to arrest you. He believed that it would not ultimately result in a conviction, but he is not a judge, jury or prosecutor. I would just be sure you are either clearly OC'ing if that's your thing or do what I do, make sure concealed means concealed.

    If you were arrested for it you could fight it and win. I posted several case law references earlier that cover that kind of thing.
     

    Nolacopusmc

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    I was told by a very pro gun cop that if you were OC'ing without a permit and any part of clothing was covering any part of your gun he had enough cause to arrest you. He believed that it would not ultimately result in a conviction, but he is not a judge, jury or prosecutor. I would just be sure you are either clearly OC'ing if that's your thing or do what I do, make sure concealed means concealed.

    Unfortunately, like many LEO, this fellow is sadly mistaken. Feel free to give him my contact information if he would like to be informed.

    I am sure he means well, he is just misinformed.
     

    bs875

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    in this sense, he is describing a gun clip like you would have a clip on your knife. This is the type of clip that holds the gun in place in your pocket the same way a knife would. You can see a picture of one here. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/lgprod/KEY-017.jpg

    I thought about that before I commented but he said "clips" so I figured that meant extra mags. I guess it could be a clip on a gun a la the Kel-Tec type. Which now that I look at the link you posted is exactly what you were saying too. Here I thought people were mellowing out.
     

    OneStory

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    My "intent" is to keep my handgun from falling on the ground.

    The KelTec with the clip attached referenced above is the carry method I'm using.

    The State Police office in BR was NO HELP in answering any of my questions pertaining to concealed carry - they would only repeat what is on their website. It's not their fault the laws are so vague and I don't want to spend my money and time creating case law so we can get answers.

    Don't get me wrong - I like rules but vague rules/laws really **** me off...sorry, I'll stop the rant before it goes any further...okay, I'll rant!!!

    The CCH rules don't say how or when to inform the LEO that you are carrying concealed...

    The old and revised CCH laws about concealed carry in "church" doesn't define what a "church" is. Is it every inch of the real estate owned by the church or just the one room where service takes place or somewhere in between?...Is it the rented ballroom at the motel where the "church" meets one hour per week?...Is it the youth minister's house on the other side of town that is owned by the church?...

    What the heck is "tactical training" anyway? If I daydream about something "tactical" for eight hours, does that constitute "training"?...

    I know we can all post "this is what I do" and "this is what worked for me" but that doesn't cut it in court - "two guys on a forum said it worked for them, your honor..."

    If the clip of a knife showing means that it is not concealed then why does the clip of a gun showing mean that it can be considered concealed?

    The list goes ON AND ON...

    No offense to the LEO out there but each of them seem to interpret the laws differently because the laws are so vague and "let the judge sort it out" just doesn't do it for me.
     

    SpeedRacer

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    There's nothing grey area about it. You are ILLEGALLY carrying a concealed firearm. If you don't have a CHP, then the rules regarding that have nothing to do with you.

    You are just begging for a serious shitstorm.
     

    OneStory

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    I do have a CCP and someone is just as likely to say I'm NOT carrying concealed because they can see the clip...getting more grey??
     

    SpeedRacer

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    If you have a CHP, then I don't understand your question. Your clip being exposed is fine, as it's not distinguishable as a firearm.
     
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    OneStory

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    It may have seemed like it, but I didn't ask the question for my sole benefit.

    I'm seeing more and more guns differing in shape, size, color, etc...and "enough showing" or "easily recognizable" isn't gonna cut it IMO.

    To stir things up even more, I think concealed carry permits are a crock of sheeat. Yes, I paid for and maintain my crock of sh** but that doesn't change what it is.
     

    Nolacopusmc

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    I do have a CCP and someone is just as likely to say I'm NOT carrying concealed because they can see the clip...getting more grey??

    You have some serious holes in your CHP training. :eek3:

    Secondly, you need to accept the fact that there are no black and white absolute answers within our legal system. Ultimately, the law and the concept of justice is decided by man, therefore the chance for mistakes and interpretation based on circumstances exists...by design. That is why judges and juries decide things and not an algorithmic computer.

    Either you know the answer and you are simply trying to stir conflict, or you really are that dense and ill-informed and probably should not be carrying firearm without additional training....be it "tactical" or not.

    Either way, if you are that confused, feel free to come to my class for free this saturday.
     
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    charlie12

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    I do have a CCP and someone is just as likely to say I'm NOT carrying concealed because they can see the clip...getting more grey??

    Wonder if they could only see your "clip" and you:rofl: didn't have a CHP would you get busted for CC'ing?
     

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