Open carry in restaurants

I know that we can't carry concealed in restaurants that serve alcohol.

What are the laws regarding open carry in restaurants?

RS 14:95.5 Possession of firearm on premises of alcoholic beverage outlet
§95.5. Possession of firearm on premises of alcoholic beverage outlet
A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.
B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.
C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to the owner or lessee of an alcoholic beverage outlet, or to an employee of such owner or lessee, or to a law enforcement officer or other person vested with law enforcement authority acting in the performance of his official duties.
D. Whoever violates the provisions of this Section shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.
Acts 1985, No. 765, §1.

That's it. If they don't serve alcohol, it is up to the restaurant owner.






http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1036

Thanks for the quick reply LC. That's what I thought.

i believe that you CAN carry in a restaurant as long as you are not in the "lounge/bar" area of the restaurant.

i'll do some digging but i think that LouisianaCarry is on the right tract as far as open carry is concerned but the laws for concealed carry are a little different

This is discussed at length in this thread, beginning especially with reply #21.

The law says what I posted above. The CCW Statute could be construed to infer that it implicitly permits carry in non-Class A areas, but it does not say that other statutes notwithstanding, so case law will have to decide this. You are assuming a risk, at least, by carrying, until this is clarified in law or precedent.

I'm not. I'm paranoid and don't take any chances. I have a friend that just got a reliable gun, and he wanted to know.

Since I got my CHP all of my friends come to me for any firearm related questions. Heh.

stop giving out bad advice, its counter productive to what you are trying to accomplish. at the very least educate yourself on the laws. its elementary, do i need to go into what a class A license is? or can you figure that one out on your own?

G. No concealed handgun permit issued pursuant hereto shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
1. a law enforcement office, station, or building;
2. a detention facility, prison, or jail;
3. a courthouse or courtroom, provided that a judge may carry such a weapon in his own courtroom;
4. a polling place;
5. a meeting place of the governing authority of a political subdivision;
6. the state capitol building;
7. any portion of an airport facility where the carrying of firearms is prohibited under federal law, except that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, if the firearm is encased for shipment, for the purpose of checking such firearm as lawful baggage;
8. any church, synagogue, mosque or other similar place of worship;
9. a parade or demonstration for which a permit is issued by a governmental entity;
10. any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter I or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises;
11. any school "firearm-free zone" as defined in R.S. 14:95.6;
12. any private residence of another person, unless the permittee first receives the permission of that person; and
13. any other property or premises where access by those possessing a concealed handgun is restricted by the property owner, lessee or lawful custodian.

Ok, dude. You need to ease up, first.

Educate myself on the laws? I have read every State law we have about guns and personal defense, and have links to most of them (including the one you posted) on my web site.

Since you want to get short, let me spell it out for you.

I posted the State law that prohibits carry in any establishment that serves alcohol. That covers all classes of licensed establishments, period.

Some laws, when written correctly, that seek to permit things that other laws prohibit, specifically include the phrase OTHER STATUTES TO THE CONTRARY NOTWITHSTANDING. That means that the law in question supersedes other conflicting laws. However, 1379.3 does not include those terms in reference to carrying in a beverage outlet.

It does include those terms in its opening paragraphs, to supersede RS 14:95 (Illegal carrying of weapons), since, if it didn't say that, the laws would be in conflict.

However, again, it did not do that throughout. Why is this necessary? Because RS 40:1379.3 also says (M.) No concealed handgun permit shall be valid or entitle any permittee to carry a concealed weapon in any facility, building, location, zone, or area in which firearms are banned by state or federal law.

This makes clear that other laws still apply, when applied to specific establishments (such as courthouses, schools, and restaurants).

If the legislators that wrote the CHP Statute were trying to allow carry in restaurants that were not Class A, they should have (in order to protect the law abiding citizenry) made that clearer than they did by simple inference. They did not do that, most likely because legislators are not always judges or lawyers, and they, like us, are simply people doing the best they can. The courts are FULL of precedents that are a result of the justice system trying to sort out poorly written laws. This is one of those examples.

I have already conceded that a case could be made in court that the inference made by the paragraph you posted could be POSSIBLY construed to imply that carry in non-Class A beverage licensees is permitted, but for you to say that that is a foregone conclusion shows that you are the naive one here.

Careful calling people out, bud.

you are right, you cannot carry where a CLASS A license is needed, however, you are allowed to carry where there is a CLASS B license. a restaurant must carry both CLASS A (for the bar, or the lounge area surrounding the bar) and a CLASS B license for the remainder of the restaurant. thus, you can legally carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol as long as you are not sitting at the bar itself, or in area surrounding the bar.

think about it this way: you walk into almost every chillies restaurant in the country and you have two choices, wait to be seated by a hostess, or seat yourself in the lounge area or the at the bar. this is because there are two types of licenses in effect, a class A for the bar, and a class B for the restaurant. this is also why someone who is under the legal age is not supposed to sit at the bar but can sit elsewhere in the restaurant.

if you dont buy it then ask a lawyer

With all due respect, what part of:

"A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.
B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment."

don't you understand?


Nowhere in RS 40:1379.3 does it say that your permit annuls that law.

A more indelicate moderator might call you obtuse. However, I shall not, because I appreciate your willingness to discuss issues such as these, and to talk it out until you understand. If you are willing to listen in addition to talking, you could be a real boon to the Louisiana 2A community.

with all due respect, what part of:

10. any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter I or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises;

do you not understand

I understand that. I am not arguing that I cannot carry in a Class A establishment (or applicable part thereof). I AM AGREEING WITH YOU THAT NO PERMITTEE CAN CARRY IN A CLASS A PLACE.

However, ALL OTHER CLASSES OF PERMITTED ESTABLISHMENTS ARE ALSO PROHIBITED, BY LAW.

Is it that I am being unclear, or that you simply are not listening?

Dangit, now you went and made me raise my voice.

The Firing Line disagrees with you. Their state troopers have always maintained that you can carry in the part of the restaraunt not under the Class A license. Since the LA CCW laws specifically list where the state says you can't carry, aside from where federal law prohibits, it implies that you can carry in a place with a class B license, or in the part of the establishment not under the class A license jurisdiction.

Do you have any case law that shows someone indicted for carrying concealed in a situation like this? Otherwise, I think the courts would have to rule otherwise. You'd have an excellent case, since the CCW booklet that they hand out with your permit application does not say anything about not carrying in a restaraunt, and specifically lists the laws about where you can not carry.

The lack of case law is my basis for concern, as I stated earlier.

The opinions of the LSP, the Firing Line and the Handbook doth not judicial precedent make.

I have said before that it should not be hard to get the proper precedent set, were the issue to come up in court. However, the way the law is written now, it is ambiguous at best.

Yes, 1379.3 lists prohibited locations. However, it does NOT say that it lists ALL the prohibited locations is paragraph G. On the contrary, it specifically says in paragraph M that all other State and Federal laws still apply, which would be superfluous, if G were all-inclusive. Unfortunately, RS 14:95.5 is a current State law. Nowhere does it say in 1379.3 that you can carry in a non-Class A. It only re-affirms that you cannot carry in a Class A. Yes, by inference, it would seem to say that other places are permitted. If paragraph M were not there, there wouldn't be a problem, as inference alone should be enough. However, since paragraph M is there, and para. G does not make clear that it overrides that, we have ambiguity.

Again, I am not saying that you are at a huge risk of going to jail here. I am agreeing that you should be able to win in court. The things you listed are exactly why I think that. However, until that precedent is set- the law is placing law abiding citizens at risk unnecessarily, via an ambiguously worded body of statutes.

If you cannot see why that is a clear and reasonable statement, I am not sure what else to tell you.

No, they do not set judicial precedent. They are who the state has certified to tell you where you can legally carry concealed. They also represent law enforcement.

Paragraph O pertains to private property owners' rights to limit carry on their property. Where you talking about a different section?

What's not clear why that statute is left out of the CCW handbook, if it applied to CCW holders. Why would you write 1379.3 and specify only Type A licensees if you intended 14:95.5 to cover both Type A and Type B licensees?

I'd say it would be more reasonable to assume that just like open carry is legal, not recognized as legal, and can result in you reasonably expecting legal trouble, CCW in restaurants is not recognized as illegal and there is no reason to expect to ever run into trouble because of it, regardless of whether RS 14:95.5 is supposed to apply to CCW holders.

If you want to fight to change a law that isn't recognized by the people enforcing it, fine. But I would be hesitant to tell people it was illegal for them to CCW in restaurants. The less chance of another Ruby's, the better I feel.

Yes, I meant paragraph (M), which I quoted earlier, but misremembered. (I was frustrated because I had a long reply typed out, and my connection crapped out on me.)

I agree that the people who wrote 1379.3 meant for it only to apply to Class A establishments. That is good, and I am glad that they at least went that far (personally, I wouldn't create any defense-free crime zones, but that is me). My only assertion is that they screwed up by only implying that in one paragraph, and then explicitly stating something else in another paragraph.

I carry in non-class A outlets, personally. I am all for everyone else doing that, also. I simply want people to be aware that if they end up on the wrong side of, for example, the Gonzales PD (The "We don't care what the law or the Supreme Court says, we are not going to have people walking around carrying guns" people), you could be the person that has to pay to set the precedent to clear this up.

Besides, the OP asked about OC in a restaurant/beverage outlet, which is exactly what the law I posted covers.

I am not trying to get the law clarified because I am afraid of it for myself, I want to make sure no one else runs afoul of it. I have a high degree of respect for LEOs, but (I think) anyone would admit that not all of the SOs and PDs in LA are exactly fair and just. I want the law to be clearly on the side of the citizenry in all gun control matters.

Let me sum up my position again:

I am not saying anyone should not carry anywhere. Like MLK, I think that people should follow good laws, and be willing to exercise civil disobedience regarding laws that harm people.

I am not saying that anyone will ever get popped for carrying in a restaurant.

I am simply saying that the law was poorly written, and that the resulting ambiguity should be eliminated.

Cool?