Remington secrets

George · Oct 20, 2010

On CNBC right now!!! About the cover up of the gun(700) firing when the safety is disengaged.

whbonney26 · Oct 20, 2010

I have an old Remington single shot Target Master .22 that fires sometimes when the safety is taken off. Not always but its def. dangerous. Love the rifle though.

03GeeTee · Oct 20, 2010

umm........... aren't they supposed to fire when the safety is disengaged??

spanky · Oct 20, 2010

03GeeTee said:
umm........... aren't they supposed to fire when the safety is disengaged??

without pulling the trigger.

themcfarland · Oct 20, 2010

This is really, really bad media for them..

My only question, where is the situational awareness when these folks are loading or unloading... pointed towards walls and trailers..

I never load or unload except pointing up or down..

does this affect the new 700 series like the sps?

SwampKat · Oct 20, 2010

It happen to my partner and I at the last match we were at.

themcfarland · Oct 20, 2010

JLouque said:
It happen to my partner and I at the last match we were at.

did you anticipate it and everyone was safe? How do you do treat a *remington moment* as a judge? is it still a DQ?

CEHollier · Oct 21, 2010

themcfarland said:
This is really, really bad media for them..

When a mother disengages the safety to unload the rifle and it goes off and kills her child I would say yes. When the same thing happens to an oil field supervisor and his foot is blown off I would say yes. Hell, the rifles inventor knew of the problem and created a fix. It would add around 5 cents to the production costs so Remington scrapped it. Very bad. After seeing the special on how Remington handled the problem I will not buy their firearms.

tupperware9mm · Oct 21, 2010

Just saw the show... stunning the man who designed the Remington 700 was interviewed and showed all of the letters he sent before and after he retired saying the gun was technically unsafe because they did not follow his drawings but modified them to save money. He recommended fixes for the unsafe condition but Remington, he says never made the changes because of cost . When he designed the 700 in 1949 the cost was 5.5 cents per gun to make the change. Now it would be between $75 -$100 to fix with millions of guns in the field. unbelievable. The 700 has to be one of the most popular guns ever made and they have evidence of thousands and thousand of guns going off without touching the trigger and many injuries and some deaths. and Remington has kept it all quiet. That gun was on my list to own one day but after seeing this show even though it was on CNBC I am thinking twice about ever buying another Remington. Remington declined comment, at some point they will have to say something.

spanky · Oct 21, 2010

tupperware9mm said:
Remington declined comment

I didn't see the show nor do I know much about how the 700s work but this right here says a lot to me.

Sin-ster · Oct 21, 2010

CEHollier said:
It would add around 5 cents to the production costs so Remington scrapped it.

Five cents in 1948, IIRC. That equals just a few more dollars these days. They estimated it would cost ~$500M for a full recall today (IIRC), which is more than the total company assets. 5 million rifles sold at an average fixing cost of $100 per rifle.

Before I go any further, let me stipulate that I am NOT defending Remington. The evidence as presented in the report is pretty damning. Videos of LEO and border patrol demonstrating the malfunction were pretty telling, as was an instructor from a precision shooting school who said it was so common that they actually named the issue and trained around it. At the court hearing for the Texas man who shot his foot off, the gun actually malfunctioned on the witness stand-- although they weren't clear as to why a LIVE ROUND was allowed in the chamber. Which leads me to my next point.

Whether the gun ADs (as this is certainly criteria for that, as opposed to ND) or not, it's only going to kill or injure if it's aimed at another person. Shot through a trailer, shot through a wall or shot in the foot, the gun was both loaded AND pointed in an unsafe direction. According to the CNBC report, Remington's "Ten Commandments of Gun Safety" were the alternative to fixing the problem. Even if that's true, they are still valid and if strictly followed, would prevent a lot of head and heartache.

bhp9mm · Oct 21, 2010

Maybe there is a problem but the people are using very poor gun safety how the hell you blow your foot off way would someone point a gun at there foot.

CEHollier · Oct 21, 2010

Sin-ster said:
Five cents in 1948, IIRC. That equals just a few more dollars these days. They estimated it would cost ~$500M for a full recall today (IIRC), which is more than the total company assets. 5 million rifles sold at an average fixing cost of $100 per rifle.

Before I go any further, let me stipulate that I am NOT defending Remington. The evidence as presented in the report is pretty damning. Videos of LEO and border patrol demonstrating the malfunction were pretty telling, as was an instructor from a precision shooting school who said it was so common that they actually named the issue and trained around it. At the court hearing for the Texas man who shot his foot off, the gun actually malfunctioned on the witness stand-- although they weren't clear as to why a LIVE ROUND was allowed in the chamber. Which leads me to my next point.

Whether the gun ADs (as this is certainly criteria for that, as opposed to ND) or not, it's only going to kill or injure if it's aimed at another person. Shot through a trailer, shot through a wall or shot in the foot, the gun was both loaded AND pointed in an unsafe direction. According to the CNBC report, Remington's "Ten Commandments of Gun Safety" were the alternative to fixing the problem. Even if that's true, they are still valid and if strictly followed, would prevent a lot of head and heartache.

I believe they clarified no live round was in the chamber when it went off in the court room. It was empty. I agree with the safety rules but as far as the mom knew no one was around the trailer so she wasn't pointing the rifle (knowingly) at her son. I understand 5 cents 1948 money is significantly more than 2010 money but in my opinion Remingtons actions toward a known safety problem that could result in bodily injury or death of a person is criminal.

eMGunslinger · Oct 21, 2010

Bad news for remington....good news for possible price drop like toyota :rofl:

03GeeTee · Oct 21, 2010

Anyone have a 700p they would like to get rid of before it blows off their leg?

Quickdraw22 · Oct 21, 2010

I will continue buying Remington. Great gun, great price, great accuracy.

Speedlace · Oct 21, 2010

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39740539/

Here a statement from Remington to CNBC:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Se...gton_Under_Fire/Stories/RemingtonArmsCNBC.pdf

For anyone that missed it, they are showing re-runs @
Sunday, October 24th at 10PM ET
Thursday, October 28th at 8PM ET and 12AM ET
Sunday, October 31st at 1AM ET

Some examples of what to expect.

[YOUTUBE]6Ov9XKbA1Hw[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]c2oZtWRyDu8[/YOUTUBE]

Speedlace · Oct 21, 2010

Remington's response to the show:

[YOUTUBE]2_8kLT7IRPg[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]yp0j4XELYE0[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]kmkF00hH0rg[/YOUTUBE]

spanky · Oct 21, 2010

Those videos make Remington look like they are trying to be politicians and not trying to prove their design is safe.

peterf225 · Oct 21, 2010

Not defending Remington but here are my personal experiences with the 700.

I have either owned or shot probably about 30 different 700 rifles from factory configuration to full blown customs. The only time I have seen one fire without the trigger being pulled was one that the factory trigger had been adjusted by an individual who was not a gunsmith and didn't adjust it properly causing the AD.

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