St. Tammany Parish Ordinances

[met7881]

St. Tammany Parish has various ordinances that prohibit firearm possession at various parks, boat landings and Tammany Trace. I refer to Sec 16-001-00, 16-056-00, 16-131-02 and 16-151-00. My question for all you legal eagles is , do these ordinances violate the state firearm preemption statute. Next question would be can these ordinances prohibit licensed CCW. I called the LSP handgun unit to no avail. Its interesting to note that the new fishing pier in Slidell has no prohibition with regards to firearms. The CCW statute make no mention of prohibition to carry at these locations.

 

[Walrus]

Posed this question to my parish councilman along with another councilman who happens to be a friend of mine. We'll see what they say.

 

[XD-GEM]

It's really very simple.

RS 40:1796

§1796. Preemption of state law

A. No governing authority of a political subdivision shall enact after July 15, 1985, any ordinance or regulation more restrictive than state law concerning in any way the sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transfer, transportation, license, or registration of firearms, ammunition, or components of firearms or ammunition; however, this Section shall not apply to the levy and collection of sales and use taxes, license fees and taxes and permit fees, nor shall it affect the authority of political subdivisions to prohibit the possession of a weapon or firearm in certain commercial establishments and public buildings.

 

[Bearco]

It is simple. Tom Gresham contacted them a while back about the signs posted on the trace. The end result was that their attorneys decided to keep the signs.

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[ddeacon1]

I was bicycling on the Tammany Trace on Saturday afternoon. I went from the Slidell Trailhead to the Mandeville Trailhead and back. I did a see bunch of no pet signs and drug free zones, but nothing about firearms.

 

[Bearco]

I was bicycling on the Tammany Trace on Saturday afternoon. I went from the Slidell Trailhead to the Mandeville Trailhead and back. I did a see bunch of no pet signs and drug free zones, but nothing about firearms.

I know they used to have them at the trail heads, but that could have changed.

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[nolaradio]

I was bicycling on the Tammany Trace on Saturday afternoon. I went from the Slidell Trailhead to the Mandeville Trailhead and back. I did a see bunch of no pet signs and drug free zones, but nothing about firearms.

There's no big "firearm free zone" signs posted like you would see at schools.
After reading this post, I went out to the Koop Drive trailhead just north of I-12 in Mandeville. Below are some pictures that I took. Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating the prohibition of carrying firearms along the Tammany Trace. I just wanted to post this information out there to inform others.
If the parish agrees that they cannot preempt state law and they are just too lazy (cheap) to replace the signage, they should at least remove it from the ordinance on the books. I'd be interested in hearing more from Tom and others that have already contacted their council representatives.

See rule number 15 in this picture.


Signs like these are posted at several spots along the trace:


Here's a closer look:


I picked up this pamphlet while there. I couldn't find a copyright date on it, but there's a picture of Pat Brister inside, so it's from the current St. Tammany administration.


Inside the pamphlet, it appears that you can carry, just not discharge a firearm:


Finally, from St. Tammany Parish Code of Ordinances, SEC. 16-131.02 Rules and Regulations:

The following are the approved rules and regulations established in connection with Tammany Trace:
...THE FOLLOWING IS PROHIBITED ON TAMMANY TRACE OR ITS FACILITIES:

. Alcohol

. Camping

. Fires

. Carrying or discharging of firearms or fireworks

Complete code can be found here: http://www.stpgov.org/code/content.php?parent=1460#node1537

 

[Walrus]

I've never seen any gun-buster signs posted either. There are many of the placard type informational boards along the Trace (images 2 and 3 above) that declare to NOT carry firearms.

I posted this question to my councilman, Gene Bellisario, District 9. as usual he responded quickly. I'll summarize his response.

****
Mr. Bellisario indicated that the Parish hired a firm last year, Muni Code from Florida, to update all Parish Laws to remove any conflicts with State or Federal Law and this endeavor should be completed this year. He indicates the Council attorney is working with 'an attorney who helped with the last Louisiana constitutional amendment on gun rights to make sure we get it right'. He also mentioned that the Council attorney was not aware of any arrest being made for carrying a weapon on the Trace.
****

So it appears the parish realizes it might have issues with some existing Parish firearm laws and is working to remedy, one way or the other, those issues. We'll have to wait to see how the conflicts are remedied.

Gene indicated he'd keep me informed, which he has always done in the past with any other issue I've brought to his attention, when he provides additional/new information I'll try to remember to post it here.

 

[jmcrawf1]

You can't be arrested for carrying a gun on the trace. Only asked to leave the trace.

 

[Ritten]

You can't be arrested for carrying a gun on the trace. Only asked to leave the trace.

Actually you can be arrested for carrying a gun on the trace. It may not be a lawful arrest but it can happen if the officer is not aware of the state law change.

 

[dixiejarhead]

Actually you can be arrested for carrying a gun on the trace. It may not be a lawful arrest but it can happen if the officer is not aware of the state law change.

Yes, but are they enforcing a municipal ordnance or "rules"? If it's the latter, then they would be hard pressed to arrest based on a rule. At least for weapons possession in my opinion.

 

[Ritten]

Yes, but are they enforcing a municipal ordnance or "rules"? If it's the latter, then they would be hard pressed to arrest based on a rule. At least for weapons possession in my opinion.

This makes no sense. We're talking about a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER making an arrest. That pretty much narrows it down to a law....or more specifically, the officer's understanding of it. Which is my point that it is possible that a St. Tammny Parish SO does not keep up with every law change and would still make an arrest based on the law before last November.

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[dixiejarhead]

This makes no sense. We're talking about a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER making an arrest. That pretty much narrows it down to a law....or more specifically, the officer's understanding of it. Which is my point that it is possible that a St. Tammny Parish SO does not keep up with every law change and would still make an arrest based on the law before last November.

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Yeah, I'm familiar with the concept. Some ordinances are civil not criminal. Hence the question. Is this sign a posted ordinance or a "rule"?

 

[nolaradio]

Seeing as its listed in the code of ordinances, I'd say it's an ordinance.

 

[dixiejarhead]

SEC. 16-131.02 Rules and Regulations

The following are the approved rules and regulations established in connection with Tammany Trace:

General Rules:

Hours of Operation: Daily from 7:00 a.m. to dark.

Please stay on the appropriately marked trails. Pedestrians should stay on the west shoulder or to the right along each side of the trail. Slower traffic should stay to the right in each direction. Passing traffic should notify slower traffic that they are passing either by voice, horn, or bell.

Obey all federal, state, and local traffic laws. Laws will be strictly enforced in accordance with fines associated with violations.

Park only in designated areas. Unauthorized parking is subject to being towed and/or ticketed.

No trespassing on private property.

THE FOLLOWING IS PROHIBITED ON TAMMANY TRACE OR ITS FACILITIES:

. Alcohol

. Camping

. Fires

. Carrying or discharging of firearms or fireworks

. Use of glass containers

. Hunting

. Littering

. Pets on main trail

. Racing

. Unauthorized solicitation

. Swimming, wading or diving

. Unauthorized structures

Only authorized motorized vehicles are allowed on Tammany Trace.

Do not disturb plant vegetation. Tammany Trace traverses an environmentally sensitive area of St. Tammany Parish.

Handling of wildlife found on Tammany Trace is prohibited. Please contact Tammany Trace Ranger or appropriate parish authorities if there is a problem.

Specific Trail Rules:

Horses stay in assigned areas.

A Coggins test is required for horses using Tammany Trace.

Do not exceed 20 MPH speed limit.

Horses must be kept at a walk in the area designated for horses on the main trail.

Helmets, knee pads, elbow and wrist guards are required for roller bladers.

Helmets are required for off-road biking (when such area has been constructed).

Obey all traffic signs along the trail.

Stay in designated areas only. Stay out of drainage ditches and other such structures not constructed for recreational purposes.

When you see hazard signs and reflective markings on the main trail, these signs denote possible danger areas. Move as close to the center of the trail as traffic will allow.

BRIDGE ETIQUETTE: ROLLER BLADERS YIELD TO CYCLIST; CYCLIST YIELD TO JOGGERS; JOGGERS YIELD TO WALKERS; WALKERS YIELD TO HORSES

Helmets for cyclists and horsemen are strongly recommended and encouraged. Ride at your own risk if no helmet is worn. St. Tammany Parish is not responsible for injuries resulting from lack of proper equipment, improperly maintained equipment, improperly used equipment, or improper or unsafe use of Tammany Trace facilities.

CONSTRUCTION:

Absolutely no one shall use areas designated either as *Under Construction* or signed as *No Trespassing*. These areas are unsafe and are not open to the general public. Further only authorized personnel are allowed to enter these areas.

Tammany Trace is ADA accessible, and St. Tammany Parish encourages use of the Trail by all, regardless of race, creed, sex, ethnic origin or physical impairment.

Commissioned St. Tammany Parish Trace RANGERS ARE EMPOWERED TO PATROL THE TRACE, WRITE, AND ISSUE CITATIONS TO OFFENDERS.

(Ord. No. 94-2024, adopted 07/21/94)



These are "rules" not laws.

- - - Updated - - -

Seeing as its listed in the code of ordinances, I'd say it's an ordinance.

Punishable by.... what?



B. PENALTY AND ENFORCEMENT:

Except where state law or parish ordinance supercedes and provides for more stringent penalties, any person violating the provisions of this section shall be subject to a fine of not more than One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) or imprisonment in the parish jail for not more than ten (10) days, or both, in the discretion of the court.

Enforcement of this section shall be by the Parish Sheriff’s Office.

(Ord. No. 1158, adopted 05/22/80; amended by Ord. No. 81-212, adopted 06/04/81; amended by Ord. No. 12-2771, adopted 07/12/2012)

 

[dixiejarhead]

So in short, let them arrest you then sue the **** out of them for false imprisonment.

Says right there: Except where state law or parish ordinance supercedes and provides for more stringent penalties

Although the wording should say and/or not just and.

Most likely it's a ticket-able offence. Nothing more.

 

[nolaradio]

Law or rule, makes no difference to me. I don't have the time or money to prove a point to St. Tammany officials. Even if you could recoup expenses incurred for fighting an arrest, you can't recoup time away from your family. If there is a sign saying no weapons, I'd just assume to not bring a weapon on the trace.

Walrus, thanks for the recap of your conversation with your councilman. I'm going to look mine up and try to craft a nice letter to express my feelings on this matter. Maybe we can get this changed and get everyone involved on the parish level informed if/when any change is made.

 

[rocketsteve]

This is how the Tammany Trace signage reads, at the trace crossing, near the Abita Springs cemetery...

 

[jmcrawf1]

Actually you can be arrested for carrying a gun on the trace. It may not be a lawful arrest but it can happen if the officer is not aware of the state law change.

Probable cause for what charge? Parish ordinances specify which ones constitute a misdemeanor. The ordinance for the list of rules of the trace does not specify that violation of that ordinance is a misdemeanor.

I know plenty of STPSO deputies. They aren't dummies.



EDIT: Dixiejarhead addressed this.

 

[oppsImissed]

Not trying to stir the pot but I have a question. What differance does it make? if the sighns say dont carry, well then dont carry. I really dont see the big deal.