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FRC Indoor Range
December 5th, 2017, 04:49 PM
We are disappointed to have to announce that AK pistols, i.e. Draco’s are no longer permissible at FRC. Unfortunately, we have had several issues with shooters being unable to handle them safely, and management has now banned them completely. We apologize for any inconvenience, but FRC is extremely serious about providing a safe and professional shooting environment for all of our valued customers, and on that point we will not compromise. Thank you for understanding.


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AustinBR
December 5th, 2017, 08:05 PM
I wholeheartedly support this decision.

krotsman
December 5th, 2017, 08:17 PM
Not an AK guy. What's so bad about them?

Saintsfan6
December 5th, 2017, 08:54 PM
Not an AK guy. What's so bad about them?

It’s not the Draco, it’s the mouth breathers spraying like scar face with these things...

AustinBR
December 5th, 2017, 09:31 PM
Not an AK guy. What's so bad about them?

The people, in general, who come in with AK pistols don't typically hit their targets. They do hit the roof, floor, walls, and other targets though. Also, AK pistols are VERY loud and make anyone within three lanes very unhappy.

I am not really a fan of people shooting AR pistols or SBRs next to me either, but they general have enough class to not rapid fire and act like a moron. Those with AK pistols seem to want derpy attention and they got it...and got their firearms banned.

wcweir3
December 5th, 2017, 09:57 PM
The shooting sport needs to keep safely in all that we do, we have too much attention focused on us as is we don’t need some a$$ getting wild and shooting someone and bringing the media down on us again.
Wingate

rcm192
December 5th, 2017, 11:51 PM
Just wait til they bring one in in 9mm dat take dem glock clipz. Then they will be really confused as to why they cant shoot it. Lolol.

bigtattoo79
December 6th, 2017, 03:18 AM
I’d never own a AK pistol OR even a AR pistol not my cup of tea. But this sounds kinda like when the news blames the guns for mass shootings and not the shooter.

FRC Indoor Range
December 6th, 2017, 08:07 AM
Austin pretty much hit the nail on the head. And as many of you know we do not allow steel core ammunition because I️t damages our range. Multiple times we have caught people with Draco’s lying to us and sneaking in steel core ammunition after being told repeatedly they cannot use I️t.


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themcfarland
December 6th, 2017, 11:22 AM
I visited your place a few weeks ago to sight in a new scope and was very pleased with the safety and awareness.. I am fine with how you run a business , its yours to run. I will continue to use it, not only for convenience , but due to other places not necessarily having the same sense of safety as I do.. I was pleased as hell with knowing someone was watching the shooters including myself for safe activity.. I appreciate it, and told the RO as much.. with a hand shake.. after I secured my gear..

Thanks for keeping it safe

Dave

AustinBR
December 6th, 2017, 01:17 PM
I’d never own a AK pistol OR even a AR pistol not my cup of tea. But this sounds kinda like when the news blames the guns for mass shootings and not the shooter.

Whenever you ban "the shooter," in this case, they will pitch a fit and start screaming lawsuits. These people can still go other places and shoot walls, the floor, and the ceiling with their AK pistols, they just can't terrorize the other shooters at FRC who are there for a good time and practice lol.

bigtattoo79
December 6th, 2017, 01:28 PM
Whenever you ban "the shooter," in this case, they will pitch a fit and start screaming lawsuits. These people can still go other places and shoot walls, the floor, and the ceiling with their AK pistols, they just can't terrorize the other shooters at FRC who are there for a good time and practice lol.

I understand the thought behind it but a unsafe shooter will always be a unsafe shooter regardless of the weapon.

thperez1972
December 6th, 2017, 02:08 PM
I understand the thought behind it but a unsafe shooter will always be a unsafe shooter regardless of the weapon.

The shooter is the main problem but it seems reasonable the major damage is from the misuse of the banned weapon. If the problem shooter comes in with their weapon of choice to find out their weapon was no longer allowed, there's a chance they'll be personally offended and will take their business elsewhere. And now the person is gone as well.

UnseenUSPCompact
December 6th, 2017, 02:13 PM
What if they have a SBR or Brace? Still banned or just pure pistol configuration banned?

bigtattoo79
December 6th, 2017, 02:48 PM
The shooter is the main problem but it seems reasonable the major damage is from the misuse of the banned weapon. If the problem shooter comes in with their weapon of choice to find out their weapon was no longer allowed, there's a chance they'll be personally offended and will take their business elsewhere. And now the person is gone as well.

But how about a responsible shooter with the now banned weapon? Think he will want a membership after being punished for doing nothing wrong?
Just pointing out a unsafe AK pistol shooter will also be a unsafe Glock shooter and I’d rather them not shoot any gun around me.

I’m told FRC is a great range and I’m very interested in some of the classes held there “nothing against them my feelings on this subject are the same for all ranges I go to”.

usmc-nav
December 6th, 2017, 03:14 PM
But how about a responsible shooter with the now banned weapon? Think he will want a membership after being punished for doing nothing wrong?
Just pointing out a unsafe AK pistol shooter will also be a unsafe Glock shooter and I’d rather them not shoot any gun around me.

I’m told FRC is a great range and I’m very interested in some of the classes held there *nothing against them my feelings on this subject are the same for all ranges I go to*.

I understand what you did, easier path and all. But instead of punishing the offender you punish all.

thperez1972
December 6th, 2017, 03:16 PM
But how about a responsible shooter with the now banned weapon? Think he will want a membership after being punished for doing nothing wrong?
Just pointing out a unsafe AK pistol shooter will also be a unsafe Glock shooter and I’d rather them not shoot any gun around me.

I’m told FRC is a great range and I’m very interested in some of the classes held there *nothing against them my feelings on this subject are the same for all ranges I go to*.

I agree. I would rather not have unsafe shooters there either. As far as the responsible gun owners, they would just have to deal with it as well. Yes, they are "punished" because of the unsafe practices of others. I think the facility would prefer to lose the income from the lost membership of responsible shooters than to lose the money from repairs or the bad press from a negligent shooting in their facility.

bigtattoo79
December 6th, 2017, 03:29 PM
I understand what you did, easier path and all. But instead of punishing the offender you punish all.

Wait! What? I didn’t do anything.

bigtattoo79
December 6th, 2017, 03:35 PM
I agree. I would rather not have unsafe shooters there either. As far as the responsible gun owners, they would just have to deal with it as well. Yes, they are "punished" because of the unsafe practices of others. I think the facility would prefer to lose the income from the lost membership of responsible shooters than to lose the money from repairs or the bad press from a negligent shooting in their facility.

But by keeping those bad shooters they will still lose the money from repairs or the bad press from a negligent shooting in their facility. The problem is NOT solved by banning the gun the problem is solved by banning the bad shooter.

usmc-nav
December 6th, 2017, 04:01 PM
No not you big tattoo
Talking about FRC issuing a blank
ban instead of addressing the particular
individual.

thperez1972
December 6th, 2017, 04:05 PM
But by keeping those bad shooters they will still lose the money from repairs or the bad press from a negligent shooting in their facility. The problem is NOT solved by banning the gun the problem is solved by banning the bad shooter.

If it's that specific gun that has been observed to be the only cause for concern with respect to damage and/or injury, banning that specific gun will likely solve the problem.

bigtattoo79
December 6th, 2017, 05:30 PM
If it's that specific gun that has been observed to be the only cause for concern with respect to damage and/or injury, banning that specific gun will likely solve the problem.

Dems feel the same way about AR-15s sorry it won’t help.

thperez1972
December 6th, 2017, 07:11 PM
Dems feel the same way about AR-15s sorry it won’t help.

So a private business banning ak pistols from their shooting range won't help keep ak pistols from damaging the shooting range?

FRC is a private business. They are not trying to tell anyone they are not allowed to own any specific weapon. Any reasonable person can see the difference between the FRC's decision and the tactics of the Dems. It's a logic fallacy known as a false equivalence.

dantheman
December 6th, 2017, 07:33 PM
Vote with your pocketbook . If you disagree , move on down the road .

bigtattoo79
December 6th, 2017, 07:34 PM
So a private business banning ak pistols from their shooting range won't help keep ak pistols from damaging the shooting range?

FRC is a private business. They are not trying to tell anyone they are not allowed to own any specific weapon. Any reasonable person can see the difference between the FRC's decision and the tactics of the Dems. It's a logic fallacy known as a false equivalence.

FRC can do as they please.

Try to understand banning a gun for unsafe shooting is silly.

Even at shooting matches the rules state sending a round over the berm gets you a DQ. Thankfully they don’t ban 1911s for sending that round over the berm lol.

bigtattoo79
December 6th, 2017, 07:53 PM
Vote with your pocketbook . If you disagree , move on down the road .

I don’t disagree with the rule just the reason for it. I’ve always felt shooting AKs and ARs at a 25yard indoor range a joke and *annoying* so this rule works in my favor lol.

dantheman
December 6th, 2017, 08:46 PM
I understand your logic . My point was that it's a private business and they make the rules .

thperez1972
December 6th, 2017, 09:04 PM
FRC can do as they please.

Try to understand banning a gun for unsafe shooting is silly.

Even at shooting matches the rules state sending a round over the berm gets you a DQ. Thankfully they don’t ban 1911s for sending that round over the berm lol.

But if multiple people were sending rounds over the berm and it was consistently with the same weapon that multiple people were having trouble controlling, it would be unreasonable to not consider the use of that weapon to be incompatible with the rules of the range. Stopping the use of that weapon ends the problems that come from the use of that weapon. Allowing the use of that weapon and addressing the problems only after it continues time and time again only allows the problem to continue.

Jasarii
December 6th, 2017, 09:12 PM
I’ve never fired one, but I could definitely see how “some” shooters could spray bullets into the roof/floor. Random video from YouTube.

https://youtu.be/AncTAfPL08E

bigtattoo79
December 7th, 2017, 12:50 AM
I understand your logic . My point was that it's a private business and they make the rules .

I don’t think anyone ever disputed that.

bigtattoo79
December 7th, 2017, 01:07 AM
But if multiple people were sending rounds over the berm and it was consistently with the same weapon that multiple people were having trouble controlling, it would be unreasonable to not consider the use of that weapon to be incompatible with the rules of the range. Stopping the use of that weapon ends the problems that come from the use of that weapon. Allowing the use of that weapon and addressing the problems only after it continues time and time again only allows the problem to continue.

If you give those same shooters AR pistols you will have the same problem.

I just don’t agree that giving unsafe shooters a different weapon solves the problem of them being unsafe.

bigtattoo79
December 7th, 2017, 01:10 AM
I’ve never fired one, but I could definitely see how “some” shooters could spray bullets into the roof/floor. Random video from YouTube.

https://youtu.be/AncTAfPL08E

Well if they allow rapid fire of rifle caliber pistols by the casual shooter then I see the real problem.

thperez1972
December 7th, 2017, 06:41 AM
If you give those same shooters AR pistols you will have the same problem.

I just don’t agree that giving unsafe shooters a different weapon solves the problem of them being unsafe.

A big difference between the ak pistol and the ar pistol is the buffer tube. A number of people put some sort of a brace on it, if only for looks. That gives shooters a place to put their cheek when shooting, even with no brace. An extra point of contact means more control. And shouldering a brace makes it even easier to control. More control means the potential for having the same problem with an ar pistol as with an ak pistol is much lower.

But I would not be surprised that if their real world observations matched you theoretical speculation, they would also ban the ar pistols.

bigtattoo79
December 7th, 2017, 07:12 AM
A big difference between the ak pistol and the ar pistol is the buffer tube. A number of people put some sort of a brace on it, if only for looks. That gives shooters a place to put their cheek when shooting, even with no brace. An extra point of contact means more control. And shouldering a brace makes it even easier to control. More control means the potential for having the same problem with an ar pistol as with an ak pistol is much lower.

But I would not be surprised that if their real world observations matched you theoretical speculation, they would also ban the ar pistols.

I will hold out hope that sooner or later teaching and/or banning the offenders will become the norm before it becomes a gun free zone lol.

thperez1972
December 7th, 2017, 07:38 AM
I will hold out hope that sooner or later teaching and/or banning the offenders will become the norm before it becomes a gun free zone lol.

There appears to be a long way to go before the place becomes a gun free zone.

I understand your concern but there are too many other factors that don't allow me to make or agree with a blanket statement such as an unsafe ak pistol shooter will be unsafe with all other weapons and should, therefore, be banned. It's all about control. I don't know if you have a child or niece or nephew or young cousin. You may trust them with a .22lr pistol but may be reluctant to give them a .45 pistol. It could be their inexperience that makes them unsafe with a specific weapon but safe with another weapon.

bigtattoo79
December 7th, 2017, 08:56 AM
There appears to be a long way to go before the place becomes a gun free zone.

I understand your concern but there are too many other factors that don't allow me to make or agree with a blanket statement such as an unsafe ak pistol shooter will be unsafe with all other weapons and should, therefore, be banned. It's all about control. I don't know if you have a child or niece or nephew or young cousin. You may trust them with a .22lr pistol but may be reluctant to give them a .45 pistol. It could be their inexperience that makes them unsafe with a specific weapon but safe with another weapon.

OK.

AustinBR
December 7th, 2017, 10:51 AM
Well if they allow rapid fire of rifle caliber pistols by the casual shooter then I see the real problem.
They will come in and tell people to tone it down if they are being unsafe, and if they continue, they get removed and banned, from my understanding.

They also allow people to draw and shoot from concealment with permission.


A big difference between the ak pistol and the ar pistol is the buffer tube. A number of people put some sort of a brace on it, if only for looks. That gives shooters a place to put their cheek when shooting, even with no brace. An extra point of contact means more control. And shouldering a brace makes it even easier to control. More control means the potential for having the same problem with an ar pistol as with an ak pistol is much lower.

But I would not be surprised that if their real world observations matched you theoretical speculation, they would also ban the ar pistols.

I believe that with a brace, they will still allow these "banned" weapons to be shot. Those that have a brace and act responsibly aren't the ones that are causing trouble.