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  • JWG223

    Well-Known Member
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    Aug 16, 2011
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    Day 1:

    We began by affirming and adjusting zero. I had changed my setup and only have access to a 25 yard range where I live, for the time being, and my zero needed a few clicks. No big deal.

    We then demonstrated offset secondary to weapon-cant. It was text-book, and I was very pleased to see "stuff I read" translating into "stuff I saw/did".

    The thing that helped me most on day 1 was learning that YES, an RDS CAN AND DOES have paralax, even at 100 yards, and flipping the FS up to provide a reference will help with that a lot. It also provides feedback for head position, and weapon cant, when firing from unconventional positions behind cover. I am VERY pleased that I went with a lower 1/3 co-witness, and with the FSB up, I never once got "lost" looking for the dot through my T1's window. No pistol-work was done on Day 1. Limited work around the cars shooting from around cover...one of the instructors removed the BCG from his weapon, and took position behind a car while we stood 75m down-range. He was a very very tiny target. I did not see him (nor did half the class it seemed) until he wiggled into position and we saw motion. You feel so naked behind a car, but really, if you're doing it right...wow.

    Day 2:

    By this time, Kyle Lamb had become one of those people you just enjoy being around. A serious guy who doesn't take himself too seriously. Great teacher, very approachable, and able to speak to "from the book" as well as from personal experience, and tell you how the two do (or don't) mesh.

    We focused a lot on shooting around vehicles. Firing from around them, producing our weapon strong and typing-hand...errr...support-hand side from inside them and firing out of windows to the front, etc. We did more work using them as cover. Pretty straight-forward stuff, no surprises. My epiphany that day was that an SBR is only worth a damn if it's suppressed. Otherwise, you are just giving away barrel for nothing. Absolutely nothing. After seeing and learning how to properly produce a rifle out of a vehicle window, I can echo what VG told me a long time ago "You can fight with a 16" barrel from inside a car just as easily, and probably safer, than you can with a 10.3" barrel." I agree. 100%. And with better terminal ballistics. That said, all of my SBR stuff is suppressed, so no buyer's remorse!

    We also learned how to stay in the fight using only our left or right hand to operate our carbines. This includes reloads, firing at 100+ yard targets, malfunction clearance, etc. I learned how to seriously multiply force having only 1 hand, whereas before this course, my best plan would have been to simply lay the rifle over something, or "Rambo wield" it until it ran dry and then run. Kyle Lamb had much better ideas! Precision hits at 100+ yards with no right arm? No problem.

    Day 3:

    This is where things got interesting. Shooting through car bodies/doors/windshields/back windows, etc. Lessons from Carbine 1.5 came in here. Bangbangbang...push the muzzle through the glass, now you're on target! Also, M193 effectively penetrated clean through doors without deviation, only yaw, and M855 fragmented, and 70gr TSX did other wild things, and...no-matter what crap, or what wonderbullet you have...P for Plenty! Cars are not homogenous, and there is NO WAY TO KNOW what ANY bullet is going to do, whether it will deflect, be stopped, whatever. Keep shooting until you get results. No matter what. Even in .308.

    Another thing we did was firing our support-side using our side-arms as well as M4's from the vehicles, around barricades, etc. Something I will practice, from now on. I have not done NEARLY as much work as I should have been doing with my support-side, but that being said, I feel very confident with it and was able to make fast, solid hits. I actually impressed myself for once. Same strong-side. Being a bachelor isn't all bad, apparently!


    Over-all things that went right:

    I love lower 1/3 co-witness. Much easier for me in awkward positions.
    I am very happy with the Thorntail SBR mount for my scout (The FUSION mount is the same location, and if you have more than a light to mount, I recommend it.
    My Glock only failed once (G19)...when I jammed the top of the slide against the windshield and it couldn't fully return to battery.

    Things that went wrong:

    My Noveske N4 jammed twice. I blame Lancer L5 AWM's. This happened on day 1, and both times the bolt failed to strip a round from the top of the magazine on a reload when the bolt-stop was depressed. On day 2, I switched to PMAG's, and did not add lube or clean. It should have had MORE issues. Instead, it had NO issues. Nor on day 3, although for Day 3 I switched lubes. H buffer (middy), and Buffer spring was mil-spec from BCM, purchased less than 200 rounds before the class. No more lancers for me. This has happened before. I destroyed the mag. Apparently it is not limited to 1 magazine that I have, and they were all bought after this issue was supposedly fixed. Unloading them when I got home, I could tell they were a lot harder to strip rounds from than my PMAG's.

    Take-home points:

    Never STOP!
    Always be doing SOMETHING!
    Front-sight up is helpful!
    P for Plenty!
    Do what works for YOU! Everyone is different.
    VFG's are necessary. The Magpul AFG may be cool and help, but the VFG does so much more than act as a place to rest your hand when things get interesting. I won't ever run an M4 without.

    There were a lot of cool people there, I made lots of new friends, and there was only one nurse joke the whole week-end. I am (as many of you know) non-LE, not military (never was, not now), and I was made to feel like I fit-in and belonged by people who have done bad things to bad people the world over. I was ragged on, joked with, and gave as good as I got, and had a helluva good time and couldn't have asked to be around a cooler group. To all of you other civilians out there who are scared you "won't fit in" or something like that, DO NOT let that get in your way of a Viking Tactics course, it's a logical but irrational fear, and I felt more at home with the people at that course than I did in my own work-place (which I love, btw.).

    Over-all, just like Carbine 1.5, this was an exceptional experience and training opportunity, and I would like to thank Kyle Lamb, Instructor #2 (name not public), Vanilla Gorilla, and all of the others that helped make it happen, including Mr. Wong who allowed us to use his (very nice!) range, and who happens to own the best oriental restaurant I have ever eaten at (Honey Pecan Shrimp...ask for it.) Also, my classmates, thanks for making me feel at home and helping me learn. KNEES KNEES KNEES! A good group of students is its own instructor in its own way. Thank-you, all!
     
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    SpeedRacer

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    Feb 23, 2007
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    FUSION mount, not ATOM. ;)

    And I still blame your fancy pants rifle for your FTFs. Lots of guys were using Lancers with zero issues, myself included. The uncommon denominator is that sweet iron cross logo. :p

    Great class, great group of guys and great AAR, I'll write mine soon. I'm still picking busy picking glass boogers.
     

    JWG223

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    FUSION mount, not ATOM. ;)

    And I still blame your fancy pants rifle for your FTFs. Lots of guys were using Lancers with zero issues, myself included. The uncommon denominator is that sweet iron cross logo. :p

    Great class, great group of guys and great AAR, I'll write mine soon. I'm still picking busy picking glass boogers.

    Maybe my buffer tube is longer, or the spring I got from BCM sucks, who knows? All I know is I pressed the bolt-release and the round only half-stripped from the mag on two occasions. That kindof limits the parts to blame on: Magazine, BCG, Buffer, Buffer-tube. The rifle chambers with much more authority using PMAG's. Try it. With lancers, I could see it was a bit slower after trying to strip the round, with the PMAG, it was a single-speed operation.

    Edited mount :)
     
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    freedive10

    -Global Mod-, Caballoloco
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    Sep 17, 2008
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    Mandeville
    Things that went wrong:

    My Noveske N4 jammed twice. I blame Lancer L5 AWM's. This happened on day 1, and both times the bolt failed to strip a round from the top of the magazine on a reload when the bolt-stop was depressed. On day 2, I switched to PMAG's, and did not add lube or clean. It should have had MORE issues. Instead, it had NO issues. Nor on day 3, although for Day 3 I switched lubes. H buffer (middy), and Buffer spring was mil-spec from BCM, purchased less than 200 rounds before the class. No more lancers for me. This has happened before. I destroyed the mag. Apparently it is not limited to 1 magazine that I have, and they were all bought after this issue was supposedly fixed. Unloading them when I got home, I could tell they were a lot harder to strip rounds from than my PMAG's.

    Let me help you out! I'll take those Lancer mags off your hands!
     

    swamper

    Curmudgeon in Training
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    Mar 30, 2008
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    Pineville
    My Noveske N4 jammed twice. I blame Lancer L5 AWM's.

    Just a quick note. I was using a Noveske N4 and Lancer L5 AWM's as well. I didn't have any feeding issues except for the ones that I caused. I induced several malfunctions by covering the ejection port. Of course, I did this totally on purpose to get some practice clearing malfunctions. :mamoru:

    If you figure out what was causing your issue, it would be some good information. My rifle hasn't been cleaned since before the Carbine 1.5/Handgun 1.5 class last April.
     
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    JWG223

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    Just a quick note. I was using a Noveske N4 and Lancer L5 AWM's as well. I didn't have any feeding issues except for the ones that I caused. I induced several malfunctions by covering the ejection port. Of course, I did this totally on purpose to get some practice clearing malfunctions. :mamoru:

    If you figure out what was causing your issue, it would be some good information. My rifle hasn't been cleaned since the Carbine 1.5/Handgun 1.5 class last April.

    I think the feed lips on some lancers are sharper. That's all I got :( sometimes they fed from bolt release, sometimes not, but it was always cleaner with pmags. Just holding the weapon you could tell the impact of the bcg on the top round was more forceful with the lancers. With the pmags, I can't feel that impact, just the bcg hitting the barrel extension.

    Yes! I got remedial practice, too. Typing hand side from the closed door car window. ARM induced stovepipe.
     

    SpeedRacer

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    I think the feed lips on some lancers are sharper. That's all I got :( sometimes they fed from bolt release, sometimes not, but it was always cleaner with pmags. Just holding the weapon you could tell the impact of the bcg on the top round was more forceful with the lancers. With the pmags, I can't feel that impact, just the bcg hitting the barrel extension.

    Yes! I got remedial practice, too. Typing hand side from the closed door car window. ARM induced stovepipe.

    No one else had problems, sharp feed lips and all. That means your rifle is more sensitive to mags for some reason. I don't mean that in a "let's argue about mags" way, I mean something with your setup needs to be addressed. Your rifle should feed Lancers plain amd simple. Likely buffer, spring or lube related as I doubt it's undergassed. Even if you stick with PMags, you should make your rifle run right.
     

    goteron

    Unity Tactical
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    It's possible the mag release is cut high on the lower, causing issues... Is there rubbing on the top of the lancer feedlips?
     

    JWG223

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    No one else had problems, sharp feed lips and all. That means your rifle is more sensitive to mags for some reason. I don't mean that in a "let's argue about mags" way, I mean something with your setup needs to be addressed. Your rifle should feed Lancers plain amd simple. Likely buffer, spring or lube related as I doubt it's undergassed. Even if you stick with PMags, you should make your rifle run right.

    -Lube (was wet with MPRO7 LPX, enough to run all the next day, and NEVER had a malfunction while running other than my arm getting in the way of ejection).
    -BCG: Looks mil-spec to me. FA carrier
    -Buffer: H from Noveske, feels about right.
    -Spring: Mil-spec from BCM.
    -Buffer tube: Smooth inside, doesn't look extra long or anything to me?

    I thought at the course that my spring felt weak, but it was new, and another person felt it and said it felt fine to them. I don't know. Maybe it has a spring issue. I'll pop it out later tonight and measure it. I had issues with these mags even when using a Sprinco "White" spring.

    I literally have no clue wtf is going on other than the mags are sucking. Hand-cycling they are a ton harder to strip rounds from than PMAG's, and I wouldn't care, except in "the real world", they apparently are harder to strip rounds from, as well, resulting in jams and beating on the butt/FA to jar the rifle enough to finish stripping the round so I can get it running again. I think that's ********. If it's not the spring, I don't know what else to say.
     
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    JWG223

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    It's possible the mag release is cut high on the lower, causing issues... Is there rubbing on the top of the lancer feedlips?

    Okay, just checked. I pressed as hard as reasonable on the bottom of a seated AWM and cycled the bolt repeatedly with the bolt-release depressed. I could not feel any contact between the bolt carrier and the mag. Also, no evidence exists on the feed lips of any of my AWM's of this occuring. If this were the case, it would cause issues when running the gun, not just on the first round bolt-release, I would think, as the friction would slow both extraction AND chambering.

    Buffer spring is 10.25" long nearly exactly. Just measured it. Spec is 10-1/16 on the low end. The spring should not be the issue. This leaves the mag, IMO.
     
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    SpeedRacer

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    I give up. Your rifle is awesome. I'll gladly trade gen 2 Pmags for any "broken" Lancers you have as a community service.
     

    Captain_Morgan

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    Yeah, it was a stretch. I would just use Black PMAGS...

    I agree. If you're confident it works with them, I'd say go with it and not mess with it unless you really want to.

    You could probably get a premium for those Lancers right now, or at a minimum, trade them for PMags.


    Thanks for the write-up; it's very descriptive.
     

    JWG223

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    I give up. Your rifle is awesome. I'll gladly trade gen 2 Pmags for any "broken" Lancers you have as a community service.
    Id love to fix anything needing fixing, but everything checks out as far as I can tell. Mag isn't over inserting, buffer spring is in spec, buffer tube isn't bent or anything crazy. Let me look over things again, but I'm sorely tempted to take you at your offer. As best I can tell, it's solely a mag issue. Lancer has constantly battled this problem, looks like they still have some work to do. Maybe I got a bad batch. Who knows?
     
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    JWG223

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    After looking at things further, the weapon does strip the top round cleanly. I always load so that my top round is on the right, and you can't get 32 rounds in a Lancer, so that isn't the issue.

    Possible failures:

    -Running/moving causes the top round to come loose in the pouch a bit, and slamming the mag home may cause it to orient in an odd way that jams things up.
    -Wearing gloves, when I depress the bolt-release it is somehow fathomable that I am also pressing the bottom of it and causing the bolt-release to impact the carrier or drag.
    -The round is presenting odd secondary to cause stated above and somehow interfering with the bolt-release.

    This is all I can think of, because I looked at each Lancer and the feed-lips are smooth and look good, no rubbing from BCG. Also, it strips the top round with authority. I don't know, I'm stumped, it did it twice on day one, switched to PMAG's and no-more issues, but I didn't stop and seriously eyeball things when it happened, so the sample-size may be an issue for sure.
     

    SpeedRacer

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    Id love to fix anything needing fixing, but everything checks out as far as I can tell. Mag isn't over inserting, buffer spring is in spec, buffer tube isn't bent or anything crazy. Let me look over things again, but I'm sorely tempted to take you at your offer. As best I can tell, it's solely a mag issue. Lancer has constantly battled this problem, looks like they still have some work to do. Maybe I got a bad batch. Who knows?

    If you had a bad mag I'd agree with you. But you've always had problems with multiple Lancers when no one else seems to. That's the bottom line of why I think something is "off" with your rifle. PMags with their plastic feed lips are probably more forgiving. If the rifle runs solid with PMags stick with them, I just think any AR should run with any mag, at least I know I'd want mine to.

    I'm serious about the trade if you're interested. I am confident the mags will run just fine for me, if not I'll be the first to admit it and trash them as a loss.
     

    JWG223

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    If you had a bad mag I'd agree with you. But you've always had problems with multiple Lancers when no one else seems to. That's the bottom line of why I think something is "off" with your rifle. PMags with their plastic feed lips are probably more forgiving. If the rifle runs solid with PMags stick with them, I just think any AR should run with any mag, at least I know I'd want mine to.

    I'm serious about the trade if you're interested. I am confident the mags will run just fine for me, if not I'll be the first to admit it and trash them as a loss.

    I'd like to figure out what's going on, as well, but the fact that the rifle runs fine with them sometimes on reloads, and not at others, and has NEVER had an issue running them dynamically, just on reloads, is what confuses me.

    Is there user error of some sort? I have induced a double-feed before because the magazine lost control of the top round on a reload once. So I am currently leaning toward first-round presentation geometry being a possible issue after riding in my mag-pouch for a while, or maybe I snag the tip of the round extracting the mag, I don't know. I'd like to spend some time working it out, because I can't see it being the rifle because it does 100% with them EXCEPT on the first round from bolt-release. Anyway, I'd like to use them some more before I ditch them.
     
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