Noveske. NO more of their kool-aid for me

JWG223 · Apr 26, 2013

I purchased a complete Noveske SBR last year. Well and good. It had the Gen 2 FFL lower. I then wanted to try 300BLK, so I purchased a Daniel Defense 10.3" 300BLK upper. It would NOT fit that lower. I sent both the lower and upper to Daniel Defense. They confirmed the lower as 0.003" too narrow/out of spec. They tried over half a dozen uppers and could NOT find one that which would fit it. They are sending me my lower back and refunding my upper. I then called Noveske, to explain the issue and see what resolution they could offer. They chose to claim that their mil-spec lower is only guaranteed to fit their own uppers, and that the way to solve this issue was to buy more stuff from them. F that. I bought a complete Daniel Defense MK18/300BLK instead. Noveske has lost this customer for good. Below is roughly how my phone-call to them went:

Me: "I wanted to ask, are your Gen 2 FFL lowers "Mil-spec"? I purchased one last year."
Noveske: "Yes".
Me: "I am having an issue with mine (detailed synopsis of dimensional findings and issue).
Noveske: "Please hold a minute for me".
Noveske: [after 2-3 minutes] "Did you buy that as a complete rifle from us, since it's an SBR?"
Me: "Yes".
Noveske: "Since we sold it as a complete rifle and took the time to match it, we can't be responsible/help that another manufacturer's upper will not fit it. You could buy another Noveske upper. I'm sorry, that's all we can do for you, really."
Me: "Thank-you for your time."

:mad:

I ragequite Noveske products. If I could dump all of my Noveske stuff right now and not lose money/have a hard time replacing it, I would.

On another note, Vanilla Gorilla always picked at me for my "irrational" love for Noveske stuff and told me that DD was the way to go. Damned if I don't have to admit that I am wrong. This is about how my wallet and I feel about the whole mess:

dixiejarhead · Apr 26, 2013

Noveske is decent quality, albeit overpriced stuff IMHO. You are doing right by going DD.

JWG223 · Apr 26, 2013

dixiejarhead said:
Noveske is decent quality, albeit overpriced stuff IMHO. You are doing right by going DD.

You and I have different definitions of that, I believe. My definition is "their **** meets the spec they claim it does." Well, it doesn't, and that's okay with them, apparently. I suppose I'm just picky and all, wanting lowers to fit uppers and that sort of thing. Damn us picky people who like things that work. We are such a hang-up to the rest of the world.

Barney88PDC · Apr 26, 2013

So what do you want to sell. I like the cross.

JWG223 · Apr 26, 2013

Barney88PDC said:
So what do you want to sell. I like the cross.

I'd love to dump that SBR'ed lower. I have a 10.5" complete Noveske upper that fits it very well. Complete Noveske assembled upper, and the lower is complete as noted. I have about 5000 rounds through my other Noveske, and am going to keep it just because it is my goal one day to actually, honestly, truly wear an M4 out training with it.

SpeedRacer · Apr 26, 2013

On the bright side, now all your Lancer mags will work.

JWG223 · Apr 26, 2013

SpeedRacer said:
On the bright side, now all your Lancer mags will work.

No, now I can use Gen 3 PMAG's without having to grind down the over-stop tab on the back like you had to with the Noveske lowers before 4800 seriel #. :P

Barney88PDC · Apr 26, 2013

Caliber? Switchblock? What muzzle device, AAC 51T by any chance?

slogoat · Apr 26, 2013

I put together an sbr a few weeks ago built around a
Gen 2 lower. Threw a noveske / vltor vis 10.5 upper I found on it. Fitment was SNUG. Had to tap the rear take down pin in and out the first few times with a rubber mallet. Now it seems g2g. Runs perfect so far. All noveske minus the bcg, which is bcm. Sorry yours was beyond workable. I had read some of the gen2 lowers had problems with some uppers. I was definitely nervous putting my upper on the first time!

JNieman · Apr 26, 2013

Damn dude.

0.003" ain't much of ****. You could get someone to quite easily modify that lower to fit spec uppers receivers. For an NFA lower, it's worth it. Talk to a competent gunsmith or a machinist friend and have it done. If you weren't way up in Shreveport, I'd say drop it off at Acadiana Gunworks and it could be done there.

JR1572 · Apr 26, 2013

Get a new gun. I would make a suggestion as to what brand but IIRC, we went through this before you decided on what you bought.

You bought a boutique rifle that's an SBR and out of spec. Good luck distancing yourself from that.

My 1985 Colt is just fabulous...

JR1572

JR1572 · Apr 26, 2013

JNieman said:
Damn dude.

0.003" ain't much of ****. You could get someone to quite easily modify that lower to fit spec uppers receivers. For an NFA lower, it's worth it. Talk to a competent gunsmith or a machinist friend and have it done. If you weren't way up in Shreveport, I'd say drop it off at Acadiana Gunworks and it could be done there.

I would rather you just modify your new upper by shaving a little off of it instead of the lower which would then make the original paired upper loose if you removed material off of the lower.

JR1572

slogoat · Apr 26, 2013

JNieman said:
Damn dude.

0.003" ain't much of ****. You could get someone to quite easily modify that lower to fit spec uppers receivers. For an NFA lower, it's worth it. Talk to a competent gunsmith or a machinist friend and have it done. If you weren't way up in Shreveport, I'd say drop it off at Acadiana Gunworks and it could be done there.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Already got the stamp... Modify it.

slogoat · Apr 26, 2013

JR1572 said:
I would rather you just modify your new upper by shaving a little off of it instead of the lower which would then make the original paired upper loose if you removed material off of the lower.

JR1572

Good ideas, you people have em. Haha

JWG223 · Apr 26, 2013

Barney88PDC said:
Caliber? Switchblock? What muzzle device, AAC 51T by any chance?

-5.56
-No SB (my Surefire's don't seem to need it, runs great).
-Surefire muzzle device (212a). I am getting some shift out of my can, though. Shift is the same on that upper and another, but is about 7-8MOA. Surefire is dying to get their hands on the upper and thinks the muzzle-device may need swapping out, can has already been sent in and the bore re-EDM'ed. Before that, it was only a 4-5 MOA shift.

JWG223 · Apr 26, 2013

JR1572 said:
I would rather you just modify your new upper by shaving a little off of it instead of the lower which would then make the original paired upper loose if you removed material off of the lower.

JR1572

I suppose. I'm just a huge "do it right" kind of guy, and don't like work-arounds. If it were life/death, I would do that by all means, but it's not,

JR1572 said:
Get a new gun. I would make a suggestion as to what brand but IIRC, we went through this before you decided on what you bought.

You bought a boutique rifle that's an SBR and out of spec. Good luck distancing yourself from that.

My 1985 Colt is just fabulous...

JR1572

I just bought one of these instead:
https://danieldefense.com/rifles/pistol-length-gas-system/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-300-sbr.html

Sure, it will take longer, but no longer than my Surefire 762RC, so I will likely get them at about the same time. The whole purpose of this is a dedicated suppressed carbine, so no stress.

JNieman said:
Damn dude.

0.003" ain't much of ****. You could get someone to quite easily modify that lower to fit spec uppers receivers. For an NFA lower, it's worth it. Talk to a competent gunsmith or a machinist friend and have it done. If you weren't way up in Shreveport, I'd say drop it off at Acadiana Gunworks and it could be done there.

I appreciate the offer, I have an upper that fits it flawlessly, I'm just pissed about the situation. This isn't "my problem". I didn't create this issue. Noveske did when they pumped out a product that they claimed was mil-spec...but isn't. I cannot help that, and they won't help that. I'll just keep it as a complete 5.56 gun with a 10.5" barrel and rock on. That said, I'm done with their company, and am going to buy Daniel Defense henceforth, as stated above.

ulshop · Apr 26, 2013

I have two Gen two lowers that I registered SBR, one for 5.56 and the other soon to be 300 BLK as well. Before sending off paperwork I tried the upper off of my other Noveske, everything fit fine. When stamps came in first of the year, no Noveske uppers to be found, went with a DD MK18. The fit is tight but workable... life it too short and NFA process too slow to get bent out of shape over .003.

dixiejarhead · Apr 26, 2013

JWG223 said:
You and I have different definitions of that, I believe. My definition is "their **** meets the spec they claim it does." Well, it doesn't, and that's okay with them, apparently. I suppose I'm just picky and all, wanting lowers to fit uppers and that sort of thing. Damn us picky people who like things that work. We are such a hang-up to the rest of the world.

No, we have the same definitions I believe. I just said the quality is decent. DD is much better, hence I own DD.

dixiejarhead · Apr 26, 2013

JNieman said:
Damn dude.

0.003" ain't much of ****. You could get someone to quite easily modify that lower to fit spec uppers receivers. For an NFA lower, it's worth it. Talk to a competent gunsmith or a machinist friend and have it done. If you weren't way up in Shreveport, I'd say drop it off at Acadiana Gunworks and it could be done there.

+1> thats exactly what I'd be doing.

JNieman · Apr 26, 2013

JR1572 said:
I would rather you just modify your new upper by shaving a little off of it instead of the lower which would then make the original paired upper loose if you removed material off of the lower.

JR1572

Yea, but it's ONE matched upper that he already likely doesn't have an attachment to, because of the manufacturer he now does not like. Having an SBR lower that's forced to be partially in-spec, to work with spec uppers seems to be more important to me. It's entirely up to the owner's preference, obviously, but I'd rather an SBR'd lower that could work with as many uppers as possible, than one constrained to a matched upper from out-of-spec batches. If the upper /is/ loose in any fashion, what I would do is simply add a shim/washer for the take-down pins to go through, to snug it up. Making some shim washers from delrin, nylon, or something soft would not be tough.

ETA: My bad, saw the follow-up reply. Yea, that works too - glad you're all set. Sucks to hear about Noveske but they priced themselves out of my patronage anyways. Law of dimishing returns, and I don't buy AR15s for the fashion-label.

Noveske. NO more of their kool-aid for me

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