Need Help W/ Torque Wrench, Please

JWG223 · Jun 19, 2013

I want to change muzzle devices on my Daniel Defense rifle. I need a torque wrench to properly follow Surefire's instructions. It is also a tool I have been needing to add to my inventory of tools, for a long time. I don't want to break the bank or buy one that is worthy of tightening bolts on the internal workings of a B2 bomber, but I would like one that will get me +- 2# on this muzzle device.

Also, I have read that you need to return it to the lowest torque setting, do this, do that, and at that point, I stopped reading and decided to ask others who have seen the elephant.

I am looking for: Accurate, rugged, idiotproof. In that order, as long as you put "idiotproof" out next to each of those qualifiers, lol

Something I can walk into a store and buy would be nice vs. ordering, FWIW

03protege · Jun 19, 2013

The Harbor Freight torque wrench is very accurate the only thing that I would question is the long term durability. If your not using it every day then that should not be an issue, plus it is only $10 on sale. You don't list a budget but many torque wrenches under $60~ are rebrands of the same Harbor Freight Torque wrench.

Another cheap option that is extremely reliable (dare I say the most reliable) is the beam style torque wrench, you can't really get it out of calibration unless you bend the wrench or the needle.

Also keep in mind all torque wrenches lose accuracy towards there outer limits especially there lower limits, if you need precision I would pretend the bottom 20% of the scale is not even there. (So keep that in mind when buying your wrench)

I have the HF 3/8" and 1/2" and they give me the exact same readings as my Proto Industrial Toque wrenches that cost some good money. One of the car mags did a shoot out of torque wrenches ranging from Snap On to the Harbor Freight and the results were pretty surprising. I think it was carcraft you should look it up.

Another big part of reliability is how you store it and handle it, these are precision instruments and must be treated as such for maximum life.

And lastly, I think your +- 2% is way anal. My Proto wrenches are +-3% and they were $200-$300, you will pretty much be looking at CDI/Snap-On, Armstrong, or Gearwrench (new USA E-wrench it's badass).

JWG223 · Jun 19, 2013

03protege said:
The Harbor Freight torque wrench is very accurate the only thing that I would question is the long term durability. If your not using it every day then that should not be an issue, plus it is only $10 on sale. You don't list a budget but many torque wrenches under $60~ are rebrands of the same Harbor Freight Torque wrench.

Another cheap option that is extremely reliable (dare I say the most reliable) is the beam style torque wrench, you can't really get it out of calibration unless you bend the wrench or the needle.

Also keep in mind all torque wrenches lose accuracy towards there outer limits especially there lower limits, if you need precision I would pretend the bottom 20% of the scale is not even there. (So keep that in mind when buying your wrench)

I have the HF 3/8" and 1/2" and they give me the exact same readings as my Proto Industrial Toque wrenches that cost some good money. One of the car mags did a shoot out of torque wrenches ranging from Snap On to the Harbor Freight and the results were pretty surprising. I think it was carcraft you should look it up.

Another big part of reliability is how you store it and handle it, these are precision instruments and must be treated as such for maximum life.

And lastly, I think your +- 2% is way anal. My Proto wrenches are +-3% and they were $200-$300, you will pretty much be looking at CDI/Snap-On, Armstrong, or Gearwrench (new USA E-wrench it's badass).

Thank-you!

I think you misread, respectfully, I typed "+-2#", which for a muzzle device (20-25#) equates to roughly 8-10%. I think that's good enough for a muzzle device, and based on what you said, I can easily expect that, or better from darn near any wrench.

You're right. I won't use this very often. I've made it 27 years without one, and I'm not opening a shop tomorrow, so this will likely be like my calipers. More likely lost than broken or worn out.

I need 15-30#. I was going to select a 5-50# wrench or so, because I have heard what you said, said before. At their "limits", they are erratic. I would prefer to find one with the widest range that places my need in the power-band of that range, as it were. Right at 5250rpm, one might say.

Now, how do the beam-style work? How do ANY of them work? Do they make a noise and I know to stop? Do I look at the gauge and stop of my own volition? Do they "ratchet" at the setting and I am forced to stop?

I understand that the most accurate way is to use one is to gently but firmly torque on it in the smoothest way possible, kindof like applying the accelerator out of a corner. Feed it slow and smooth while un-winding the wheel. I figure a tq wrench best works similarly?

Crippler7815 · Jun 19, 2013

Beam style has a needle that measures on a calibrated gauge that bends with the shaft of the torque wrench, so you are forced to watch as you tighten down. Nothing to stop you from over or under tensioning other than yourself.

Ratchet style torque wrenches 'click' and then give way. It'll hit it's torque an then you'll feel it let go, and there's really no way to over torque it because it more or less stops itself. Possible to under torque if you can't reach the setting you put it at, but you're not dealing with 175# tq either.

Plenty on YouTube if you want/need to visualize!

03protege · Jun 19, 2013

Ah with 8-10% you are in great shape.

Clickers are the most fun, when tightening it feels like it breaks and makes a "click" that says "Hey ******* stop turning me!". Down side on the cheaper wrenches and when having a value set to the lower end of the scale it can sometimes be hard to determine the click. Don't let this sway you though, just turn off the music tell the dog to shut up and focus and you will make it ok.

The beam style has a scale on it and as you move the handle the needle displays the force value you are applying, while I mentioned the pro's above the negative is there is no notification you reached your target so you have to watch the scale very closely.

Clickers will ratchet but the beam you should just tighten by hand or slightly with a ratchet then you put your beam on it and do the final tightening.

The other type that is coming to fruition are the digital torque "adapters". I read some really impressive tests on the HF and I do believe this is the future but I just don't have 100% faith in it yet. Might be worth looking it to, they don't have an inaccurate range, no special storage, and easy to use.
http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-torue-adapter-68283.html

And for shits and giggles here is a picture of my wrenches, you don't think Harbor Freight copied do you? :rofl:

JWG223 · Jun 19, 2013

The beam-style appeals to me, but I have to ask, how accurate can you be? I've got decently steady hands, and I'm not dealing with a ton of torque here, will the needle end up bouncing around +-5# at 25# torque? (I'm not a weak person who will be giving it all they have to get there, but I'm also not the hulk, either.)

If it's "easy" to smoothly use a beam-style, I think I would be happiest with it, because of the task at hand.

I want to perfectly align the muzzle device between 20 and 25#. With a "clicker", if I set it to break at 25#, what if it lines up at 12# and it is dead-center, and I have not obviously "broken" the wrench (I think I have a bad feel for torque, so this is very possible in my way of thinking)? Then I am out of spec. Or I might be at 24# and perfectly in-spec. I'll never know until the muzzle device launches itself downrange with my SOCOM suppressor on it.

With the beam-style, I will know "hey, add another shim".

Crippler7815 · Jun 19, 2013

In my opinion, all of the beam style I've ever used had way too large of a scale to ever hope to be accurate within 3-5 lbs. I'm sure you can find them in a lower range, but at least from my experience, I found they worked best in stretch bolt applications, where the goal is to over torque by a quarter turn anyway.

You can always set the torque a little low, and see where it breaks, and whether or not the extra lb will put you where you need to be. With a little Loctite, the thing isn't going to go anywhere, so don't fear the 'additional projectile' scenario.

JWG223 · Jun 19, 2013

Crippler7815 said:
In my opinion, all of the beam style I've ever used had way too large of a scale to eve hope to be accurate within 3-5 lbs. I'm sure you can find them in a lower range, but at least from my experience, I found they worked best in stretch bolt applications, where the goal is to over torque by a quarter turn anyway.

You can always set the torque a little low, and see where it breaks, and whether or not the extra lb will put you where you need to be? With a little Loctite, the thing isn't going to go anywhere, so don't fear the 'additional projectile' scenario.

Gotcha. I can set it at 20, break it, and set it at 25, and if it doesn't break, but does line up, I'm G2G.

Surefire says to use Rocksett, and includes it with their product. When it comes to things like a firearm, I am all about doing things 100% to spec. It's something I can use to get my OCD fix that has good results in the process!

goteron · Jun 19, 2013

Get a barrel vise too. I don't like torquing muzzle devices only holding the upper...

Or you can use 2 pieces of wood and a regular vice.

03protege · Jun 19, 2013

You can always just set it for the low end of the spec and it will let you know when you have reached it and you can still go a LITTLE past that. ( I am really not sure what that will accomplish though)

No offense meant, and maybe I am not fully understanding what is going on here, but I think you are over analyzing this a tad.

Could you not just tighten and re-tighten all the while adding washers till you land where you desire?

JWG223 · Jun 19, 2013

goteron said:
Get a barrel vise too. I don't like torquing muzzle devices only holding the upper...

Or you can use 2 pieces of wood and a regular vice.

I went round and round over this one. Surefire shows it being done with a DPMS block, and I spoke with Garin Lee and he says that Barry Dueck has been doing them like this by the hundreds with no issues. This is how Surefire installs all of them at the factory for customers, as well as T&E. If they break a customer's weapon, it's on them. I then contacted Wes of MSTN, and he said that this method is perfectly safe.

Then there are those like you, and others who do not like it.

:/

JWG223 · Jun 19, 2013

Still, Goteron, I feel that you are correct in recommending the barrel block. I will remove my DDM4 handguard on the 10.3" gun, and might have to on my other as well. Per DD, common sense and blue loc-tite + allen-wrench makes that happen.

As to clamping the barrel... http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...m16-accu-grip-barrel-vise-jaws-prod12799.aspx . Is it good to go? Also, my vice is kindof shitty. Well, not really, but it's a small hobby vice. It should easily handle the mad amounts of torque we are talking about here, though...it's a 3" Irwin. I know the item says it fits 4" and wider vices, but really, this is 20-30# we are talking about, here...

SpeedRacer · Jun 19, 2013

The barrel vise is nice but you're not putting enough torque on the muzzle device to hurt anything using an upper vise block.

Don't buy a torque wrench just for one muzzle device. You'll either spend way too much money on a good one you'll use once, or buy a cheap one that's not accurate. Go to any of the automotive stores and borrow one. They usually just charge a small refundable deposit.

Leadfoot · Jun 19, 2013

Me thinks you're overthinking this.

JWG223 · Jun 19, 2013

SpeedRacer said:
The barrel vise is nice but you're not putting enough torque on the muzzle device to hurt anything using an upper vise block.

Don't buy a torque wrench just for one muzzle device. You'll either spend way too much money on a good one you'll use once, or buy a cheap one that's not accurate. Go to any of the automotive stores and borrow one. They usually just charge a small refundable deposit.

Yeah? Nice! I have heard they can lose calibration, though, are those generally decent, or banged up and all out of whack from previous renters?

Leadfoot said:
Me thinks you're overthinking this.

Such is my MO.

Crimson · Jun 19, 2013

If your coming to monroe or near it anytime soon I have a upper vise block and a snap on 3/8's digital torque wrench. All your worries can be over. lol

JWG223 · Jun 19, 2013

Crimson said:
If your coming to monroe or near it anytime soon I have a upper vise block and a snap on 3/8's digital torque wrench. All your worries can be over. lol

I have all but the tq wrench, currently, and kindof would like to add one to my arsenal of tools. I've heard mixed things about the cheap one's, both in this thread and other places. I'm still mulling the tq wrench situation over.

mike84z28 · Jun 19, 2013

Buy a craftsman from sears, they work fine are as accurate as any other and have a lifetime warrenty. Stay away from a beam wrench, the only thing there good for is a breaker bar.

Crimson · Jun 19, 2013

JWG223 said:
I have all but the tq wrench, currently, and kindof would like to add one to my arsenal of tools. I've heard mixed things about the cheap one's, both in this thread and other places. I'm still mulling the tq wrench situation over.

I have the snap on wrench, it cost me about $600 for the 1/2 and 3/8. For most torque wrenches you want to be in their middle torque range, not the highest and not the lowest. a 3/8 should be fine for your application, its actually the one required for headblots on half the imports I work on, so you should rarely need anything more, find the snap on 3/8 digital on ebay you'll get a deal and not have a need to ever buy another one.

03protege · Jun 19, 2013

mike84z28 said:
Buy a craftsman from sears, they work fine are as accurate as any other and have a lifetime warrenty. Stay away from a beam wrench, the only thing there good for is a breaker bar.

lol Ironically only there beam torque wrenches have a life time warranty.

http://www.craftsman.com/cswarranty/nb-100000000227082#point2

Crimson said:
I have the snap on wrench, it cost me about $600 for the 1/2 and 3/8. For most torque wrenches you want to be in their middle torque range, not the highest and not the lowest. a 3/8 should be fine for your application, its actually the one required for headblots on half the imports I work on, so you should rarely need anything more, find the snap on 3/8 digital on ebay you'll get a deal and not have a need to ever buy another one.

Are those the ones you have? :heart:

$600 for a pair and you just about stole them.

Need Help W/ Torque Wrench, Please

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