Had Enough?

Emperor · Aug 9, 2013

This stuff is out of control! Now, no one seems to know who is doing what or which agency is in charge!

The latest discovery? NSA was letting the IRS use the info they were not supposed to be collecting from innocent Americans in their investigations of? Wait for it! Here it comes; Innocent American citizens!

And there is the problem!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/08/u...broad-is-seen-by-nsa.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

You disbelievers keep telling yourself that those of us that know the government will abuse this are all tinfoilers!

SVT · Aug 9, 2013

Hey, the gov't needs to keep a safe, and if you have nothing to hide?

Oh and this:

Bayoupiper · Aug 9, 2013

SVT said:

Great self portrait!

.

ajt2341 · Aug 9, 2013

I've found the New York Times to be as reliable as the Inquirer when it comes to facts. This is no different. Do people really think that a program like this had no legal oversight? Why does everyone keep ignoring the FISA courts and warrants and claiming everything done is warrantless? When is the last time the thought police showed up at your house because of what you said online? It doesn't happen, people need to find a new conspiracy already.

Facts and logic, who needs them...

oldsman350 · Aug 9, 2013

It's just an isolated incident.. Nothing to see. Pick up that can citizen!

ajt2341 · Aug 9, 2013

And while I'm at it; The first time some incident like 9/11 happened again, some asshat would leak information on current intelligence collection and then every other uninformed person would be complaining that the government should have done more to stop it.

If you don't like how things are done in America, stop with all of the complaining and move.

SeventhSon · Aug 9, 2013

ajt2341 said:
If you don't like how things are done in America, stop with all of the complaining and move.

Just out of curiosity. Were you saying the same thing when they were trying to push through gun control a few months back?

Emperor · Aug 9, 2013

ajt2341 said:
I've found the New York Times to be as reliable as the Inquirer when it comes to facts. This is no different. Do people really think that a program like this had no legal oversight? Why does everyone keep ignoring the FISA courts and warrants and claiming everything done is warrantless? When is the last time the thought police showed up at your house because of what you said online? It doesn't happen, people need to find a new conspiracy already.

Facts and logic, who needs them...

Just so you'll know, I used the story from the N.Y. Times to illustrate that EVEN the pretenders own human ass respirators were starting to grumble about this operation. I get my news from many different sources to align my own personal compass.

It has been learned so far, with more to come, that the NSA allowed the IRS to use their mined data for their illegal operations. If you are good with that, more power to you! The abuses that are leaking now, are the tip of the iceberg. And when you can cite one example of when government ever rolls back the encroachments they have made on your Rights (not those ruled Unconstitutional by the SC), I am all ears.

SVT · Aug 9, 2013

And can we not pretend that the FISA courts are anything but secretive....why in the hell would you believe a secret gov't court (that even Congress is NOT briefed on), when the gov't continuously lies to the public? Talk about needing a dose of logic!

ajt2341 · Aug 9, 2013

SVT said:
And can we not pretend that the FISA courts are anything but secretive....why in the hell would you believe a secret gov't court (that even Congress is NOT briefed on), when the gov't continuously lies to the public? Talk about needing a dose of logic!

It's secret because it's classified, kind of makes sense. And members of congress do have access to it, and can be briefed on it with clearance. Does your district representative to the state get briefed on every warrant that judges in your district issue? No, I didn't think so. Heck, those are public documents that anyone can research and your district rep still wont know about every warrant issued.

ajt2341 · Aug 9, 2013

Emperor said:
It has been learned so far, with more to come, that the NSA allowed the IRS to use their mined data for their illegal operations.

Where are you even finding that one? I'm not seeing it anywhere. Maybe the NSA had all mentions removed from the internet already..

SVT · Aug 9, 2013

the process is secretive, and the oversight is empty: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/19/fisa-court-oversight-process-secrecy

Go ahead, put your faith in the gov't but...prepare your anus

blitztech · Aug 9, 2013

Emperor said:
This stuff is out of control! Now, no one seems to know who is doing what or which agency is in charge!

The latest discovery? NSA was letting the IRS use the info they were not supposed to be collecting from innocent Americans in their investigations of? Wait for it! Here it comes; Innocent American citizens!

And there is the problem!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/08/u...broad-is-seen-by-nsa.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

You disbelievers keep telling yourself that those of us that know the government will abuse this are all tinfoilers!

I'm confused here. Where in the article is the information about the IRS searching the data. Why talk about that and then post an article that doesn't talk about it?? This article talks about how the data isn't captured in bulk for retrospective searching and it only captures messages that are leaving the country and contain keywords/email addresses/phone numbers

ajt2341 · Aug 9, 2013

SVT said:
the process is secretive, and the oversight is empty: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/19/fisa-court-oversight-process-secrecy

Go ahead, put your faith in the gov't but...prepare your anus

I'll keep my faith in myself and own experiences, and you can feel free to keep putting your faith in the liberal media and opinions that have no facts.

ajt2341 · Aug 9, 2013

blitztech said:
I'm confused here. Where in the article is the information about the IRS searching the data. Why talk about that and then post an article that doesn't talk about it?? This article talks about how the data isn't captured in bulk for retrospective searching and it only captures messages that are leaving the country and contain keywords/email addresses/phone numbers

I was wondering that too. Sometimes I think tinfoil can poison the brain through osmosis.

Metryshooter · Aug 9, 2013

The DEA is being accused of using the data also and creating fake investigative trails to cover it up.

http://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/?p=4394&cpage=1

ajt2341 · Aug 9, 2013

Metryshooter said:
The DEA is being accused of using the data also and creating fake investigative trails to cover it uphttp://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/?p=4394&cpage=1

The DEA is a federal law enforcement agency that investigates narco-terrorism related activities. I wouldn't doubt that they have a method of accessing some of data and finished products. There's always going to be people in any company or federal agency that will misuse whatever they can. When related to data like this it also includes a lot of jail time to do so.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/intercepting-cell-phone-calls/

Here, now anyone can intercept cell phone calls. For those willing to do the research the the $2500 piece of equipment can now be replaced with a $20 piece of hardware; check out software defined radio. Now we can all be on an even playing field.

Metryshooter · Aug 9, 2013

So you're comparing a device that can be used illegally to federal agents violating people's rights? Wow.

Leonidas · Aug 9, 2013

ajt2341 said:
It's secret because it's classified, kind of makes sense. And members of congress do have access to it, and can be briefed on it with clearance. Does your district representative to the state get briefed on every warrant that judges in your district issue? No, I didn't think so. Heck, those are public documents that anyone can research and your district rep still wont know about every warrant issued.

So how do I go about examining the records of the FISA star chamber?

Oh, that's right. Its a SECRET COURT. That makes it alright.

Bullwinkle · Aug 9, 2013

Things like this are EXACTLY why the Constitution was written in the first place.

The Constitution CLEARLY defines where the POWER lies and what the government cannot do, and what it allows is very limited.

Problem is our current government has become an organism, and we the citizens are a virus, while the immune system kicks in (government agencies) to protect the organism.

Government is existing to perpetuate government, not Constitutional CITIZEN RULE as intended !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We might as well have a King and a King's Army, just raping, burning, and pillaging the country and it's subjects........................ OH................ wait a sec...............

WE DO :mad:

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