Airsoft Training

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  • Rhandhali

    Well-Known Member
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    1   0   0
    Jan 26, 2013
    284
    16
    New Orleans
    I just got back from overseas and have decided I want to get into doing some competitive shooting. I've got a CZ 85B that I've put some new sights on, but with ammo prices the way they are and my ability to get real range time pretty limited I thought I'd give airsoft a try for training and practice. It's dirt cheap to practice with once you get past the setup costs with high quality ammunition ringing up at less than a penny a round. Biodegradable BBs are also available making cleanup at outdoor sites a non issue. Most popular models of firearm are available from one manufacturer or another and accept almost all of the accessories. A Japanese shooter, Tatsuya Sakai, actually won the 2004 Steel Challenge having only handled airsoft weapons as personal ownership of firearms is almost entirely banned there.

    I'm not talking about the cheap spring powered airsoft guns you can get at big box stores, these are replicas of the real thing that weigh and handle very much like their lead slinging counterparts. Unfortunately you're restricted to mail order shops like Airsoft Atlanta, Airsoft GI, Airsplat and dozens of others. By law, in the US all replica guns have to have an orange tip to be imported. It's really common to take these off but since my pistol is a dedicated training piece I leave it on.

    After doing some research, KWA makes a gas blow back model of a CZ75. It's what's called a gas blowback, or GBB, pistol that uses "green gas", just camping store propane with some silicone oil mixed in, as a propellant. Function is exactly like a semiautomatic pistol - pull the trigger, the projectile fires, the slide recoils back and forth, chambering the next BB. It even has a DA/SA feature just like my CZ and locks open on an empty magazine.

    I have an adapter that allows me to fill my magazines from a bottle of Coleman propane, I just add a little bit of silicone oil. I use 10 weight RC shock oil. Any silicone oil will do as long as it is 100% silicone oil - hardware store stuff won't do since it has petroleum products in it that can eat up seals. The only caveat is that they add odorant to the coleman bottles and it smells pretty bad - not a big deal if you shoot outside. You can buy airsoft specific green gas which doesn't smell at all but is about 10x more expensive.

    To give you an idea of how close these airsoft guns can be to the real thing, here's my KZ75 next to my CZ85.

    First off, here's my CZ85 on the scale. It comes in at 942 grams empty.


    Here's a fully loaded magazine, 16 rounds of 115gr steel cased Tulammo (it was on top of the ammo pile when I took these pictures). 275 grams, total weight of pistol+mag+16 rounds is 1217g, or about 2.7 pounds/2lb 11.2oz.


    Here is the airsoft gun itself. You can see that it's about 2/3 the weight of the unloaded CZ85 at 673 grams.


    The (totally empty) magazine for the airsoft gun is pretty close the loaded weight of the real magazine at 272 grams. Small enough that it doesn't matter.


    Total loaded weight of the airsoft gun, then, comes in at 945 grams, a little over 75% of the weight of the real thing when loaded.

    Handling it, it handles just like the CZ85. Excepting the weight it feels like the real thing and without the orange tip looks dead on to it. The manufacturers even have a dummy roll pin for the firing pin stop put in to complete the looks. Stripping the gun is just like stripping a regular CZ.

    The trigger is the same DA/SA that is on all CZ75/85bs. It is softer and lighter than the real thing however and posseses a nice, solid reset.

    I have a Blade-Tech Drop and Offset holster for the CZ85 that the airsoft replica fits into quite well. The fit isn't perfect as the holster is molded for the ambidextrous controls of the CZ85, requiring me to tighten the screws considerably to achieve the same tension. The ride of the airsoft gun in the holster is identical however. I get the feeling that if I had a CZ75 specific holster the airsoft gun would fit perfectly. The airsoft magazines fit quite well into the double stack sized mag pouches I use, no adjustment needed.

    I have a shed in the back yard and strung up some electrical switch covers from the rafters using monofilament line. It's not a perfect setup by any means but I can get a nice loud ring every time the BBs hit. I also use cardboard cut to 1/3rd scale IDPA/ISPC/USPSA targets which can also be printed for free on standard 8.5x11 printer paper.

    You can also buy more professional setups with plates that actually drop and even a spinner target at places like BAM! Airsoft.

    Some places even do "force on force" type training since these are safe to shoot other people with. Of course, this assumes eye protection and some sort of mouth guard since the hard plastic BBs can chip and break teeth. Steel mesh to fit over the face is quite popular, or paintball masks.

    The downsides to all of this? Startup costs are high. My setup cost me a bit over 300 bucks. Magazines for GBB pistols can be expensive, mine clock in at about 45 a pop - more than the real thing! All of these guns are imported from Japan or Taiwan so finding parts can sometimes be an issue particularly for guns like mine which aren't as popular as 1911s or Glocks. Quality replicas for some guns just aren't available. If you shoot indoors you have to deal with the mess of thousands of tiny BBs. You are also shooting out of a smoothbore barrel so accuracy just isn't the same requiring you to scale down a bit sometimes. Some guns can't take accessories as well without heavy machining - the sights on my airsoft pistol aren't quite the same as the fiber sights on my CZ, for example, since they're cast in to the slide of the airsoft gun. There are lots of cheap, low quality airsoft guns out there as well.

    Airsoft is also overrun with 13 year olds, for what that's worth.

    There's no substitute for sending lead down range but with with ammo prices the way they I think this is a great way to do some training when you can't get to the range or feed your gun. The winner of the
     

    enutees

    Well-Known Member
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    11   0   0
    Jul 4, 2010
    1,016
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    Prairieville
    I suggest you concentrate on dry fire with your own gun. Ben Stoeger use to have a free program on his website. I really like Steve Anderson's dryfire book. Refinement and Repetition.

    And just so you don't think I'm biased. I've owned a ton of airsoft guns. Played in big tournaments and I'm very familiar with the high end gas blow back airsoft pistols.

    Every top shooter I've ever met dry fires. I haven't met one that talks about shooting airsoft. I don't think it will hurt but I just think your time is better spent with your actual gun. Also, I shoot CZs in competition and if you ever need a hand let me know. When you start dry firing a lot you'll break a few trigger return springs but they are cheap. Just a pain to replace. I'd pick up one of Cajun Gun Works trigger pins as its much easier to take in and out.
     

    bayougump

    I'm not a smart man
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    14   0   0
    Mar 23, 2013
    925
    18
    Ponchatoula
    I suggest you concentrate on dry fire with your own gun. Ben Stoeger use to have a free program on his website. I really like Steve Anderson's dryfire book. Refinement and Repetition.

    And just so you don't think I'm biased. I've owned a ton of airsoft guns. Played in big tournaments and I'm very familiar with the high end gas blow back airsoft pistols.

    Every top shooter I've ever met dry fires. I haven't met one that talks about shooting airsoft. I don't think it will hurt but I just think your time is better spent with your actual gun. Also, I shoot CZs in competition and if you ever need a hand let me know. When you start dry firing a lot you'll break a few trigger return springs but they are cheap. Just a pain to replace. I'd pick up one of Cajun Gun Works trigger pins as its much easier to take in and out.

    Ben came out with a dry fire book that I believe is great. I got a copy at a class put on by him and Mink a few weekends ago. It's pretty detailed and gives a great training regiment. You can check it out on his website www.benstoeger.com


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
     

    Rhandhali

    Well-Known Member
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    1   0   0
    Jan 26, 2013
    284
    16
    New Orleans
    I suggest you concentrate on dry fire with your own gun. Ben Stoeger use to have a free program on his website. I really like Steve Anderson's dryfire book. Refinement and Repetition.

    And just so you don't think I'm biased. I've owned a ton of airsoft guns. Played in big tournaments and I'm very familiar with the high end gas blow back airsoft pistols.

    Every top shooter I've ever met dry fires. I haven't met one that talks about shooting airsoft. I don't think it will hurt but I just think your time is better spent with your actual gun. Also, I shoot CZs in competition and if you ever need a hand let me know. When you start dry firing a lot you'll break a few trigger return springs but they are cheap. Just a pain to replace. I'd pick up one of Cajun Gun Works trigger pins as its much easier to take in and out.

    Thanks, I do dry fire as well and I'll definitely check out the books.

    And I'm way ahead of you on the CGW parts - I've already gotten the trigger spring installed as well as their extended firing pin and their hammer spring. They're a pretty great company and the owner has been extremely helpful. Plus their hat is awesome.
     

    freedive10

    -Global Mod-, Caballoloco
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    30   0   0
    Sep 17, 2008
    2,164
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    Mandeville
    Don't dismiss the quality airsoft for training. I have been using one for the past year and I have noticed a difference. Most guys think airsoft as those crapy plastic spring guns at Academy Sports. Not so! The quality guns w (blowback) are damn close to the real thing. Weight and function are VERY similar. I can run drills on cheap PVC target stands I made just for this in the back yard. Help me to get rid of that trigger finger itch when I cant get to the range or have the ammo.
     

    sph1480

    Well-Known Member
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    10   0   0
    Jun 9, 2011
    268
    16
    Destrehan, La
    I carry an M&P9c and I bought a Tokyo Mauri(not sure if spelled correctly) and it is the same size, weight, feel and pretty damn close to the same trigger pull. It even came with interchangeable back straps. It's a blowback airsoft gun and locks back on the last round. With the same factory markings it's really hard to tell airsoft from the real pistol. It runs of off propane(I buy the $3 dollars cans) mixed with a little oil. Unfortunately I've only been able to use it once due to lack of time, but it's a great way to practice drawing concealed and getting those first few shots off accurately. I also put together a swinging target made from pvc($20 total) that I can use in the garage or backyard. I only need to find two more plates to complete it. It's very cheap and can be done at home. With the blowback guns you also get to practice reloading. The red tip was not glued on too good so I just left it off for a few pics to show how close to an M&P it looks.





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    Rhandhali

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    Jan 26, 2013
    284
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    New Orleans
    Another thing I've found they're good for is showing basic mechanics and how to shoot overviews for first time shooters. I have a lot of friends who visit from Australia and a lot of them want to go shooting since it's difficult to impossible to lay eyes on a gun there, let alone shoot one. A session with the airsoft guns before moving to the .22 at the range is a good warmup I've found.
     

    Bayoupiper

    New Curmudgeon
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    4   0   0
    Apr 28, 2008
    5,099
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    Iowa, LA
    Many force on force trainers use airsoft weapons in their training classes.

    It really opens your eyes the first time you get popped and realize that your skills weren't all you thought they were.
     

    goodburbon

    Whalmitfahrer
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    3   0   0
    Oct 9, 2008
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    Around
    Shoot a competition, shoot nothing but air soft till the next comp. if your score improves it is a viable training tool.

    I suspect that longer dwell time in the barrel due to slower projectile speeds will help improve your trigger discipline.


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    Rhandhali

    Well-Known Member
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    Jan 26, 2013
    284
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    New Orleans
    Many force on force trainers use airsoft weapons in their training classes.

    It really opens your eyes the first time you get popped and realize that your skills weren't all you thought they were.

    Anybody in LA or MS do this? I'd be interested to see how a session like that goes.
     

    Rhandhali

    Well-Known Member
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    1   0   0
    Jan 26, 2013
    284
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    New Orleans

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