Untreated mental illness an imminent danger? ...recent mass shootings preventable...

madwabbit said:

I saw an article (which was later validated) that the only personal trait in common among the last 15 active shooters was that they were on anti-depressants or some psychological treatment at some point before the shooting.

In and by itself, thats powerful. The problem is that an increasing number of the national population has been on some type of "psychological drug" at some point, which makes the entire article (and this debate) stupid.
8 year old runs and screams in class? ritalin. Wife depressed because husband had an affair? Zoloft. Husband says he can't sleep at night or concentrate at work during the day? Ambien and Adderall. Have we become so weak as a society that we need a pill to solve everything for us? Give me a break.

Bottom line is that we have become a bunch of pansies that need something else to blame for every fault we have. Take some responsibility for yourself and your actions, and treat these people for what they are: murderers and criminals, not victims. The men, women, and children they murdered in cold blood without a fighting chance were victims.

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madwabbit said:

I saw an article (which was later validated) that the only personal trait in common among the last 15 active shooters was that they were on anti-depressants or some psychological treatment at some point before the shooting.

In and by itself, thats powerful. The problem is that an increasing number of the national population has been on some type of "psychological drug" at some point, which makes the entire article (and this debate) stupid.
8 year old runs and screams in class? ritalin. Wife depressed because husband had an affair? Zoloft. Husband says he can't sleep at night or concentrate at work during the day? Ambien and Adderall. Have we become so weak as a society that we need a pill to solve everything for us? Give me a break.

Bottom line is that we have become a bunch of pansies that need something else to blame for every fault we have. Take some responsibility for yourself and your actions, and treat these people for what they are: murderers and criminals, not victims. The men, women, and children they murdered in cold blood without a fighting chance were victims.

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Emperor said:

Prescribing drugs is much like any other supply/demand philosophy. There is a market for it! Patients DEMAND results from their doctors; thus doctors prescribe what their customers want.

Psychopharmaceuticals by their very nature can't be good for the CNS in the long term. 12 years (from lab to shelves), for a drug to be approved by the FDA to treat psychological anomaly's simply can't be enough time to discern what these things are doing. What about their genetic transfers? How does any one know (for sure), if the effects are generational or even mutational?

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madwabbit said:

this isn't like you at all. allow me to guide you back to your true course, Emp:

gun control proposals state (repeatedly) that anyone with psychiatric illness, history of treatment, or medication should be barred from carrying or purchasing firearms. That means every kid that ever took Ritalin, or every adult that ever got Ambien. (~1/4 of the country, those 2 drugs alone)


discuss?

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tim9lives said:

I don't really think any Lawmaker is going to seriously propose a law which removes the right to bear arms...Vote...etc to someone who used a Rx anti-depressant. Even if they try...I see a huge fight.

Personally...I'd rather see some sort of change in the Involuntary Commitment Laws. That seems to be where we should direct our attention.

The way it is now...Its almost impossible to intervene and legally get someone committed to a mental health facility. And even if you get past that first roadblock...there aren't enough beds.


Almost every one of the recent shooters were bat **** crazy.

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tim9lives said:

I don't really think any Lawmaker is going to seriously propose a law which removes the right to bear arms...Vote...etc to someone who used a Rx anti-depressant. Even if they try...I see a huge fight.

Personally...I'd rather see some sort of change in the Involuntary Commitment Laws. That seems to be where we should direct our attention.

The way it is now...Its almost impossible to intervene and legally get someone committed to a mental health facility. And even if you get past that first roadblock...there aren't enough beds.


Almost every one of the recent shooters were bat **** crazy.

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madwabbit said:

its law in 3 states already my friend. Excerpt, california gun law effective Jan 2014. For purposes of argument, a 5150 comes from anyone with a credible claim that you are mentally ill or disturbed. It's not unlike a woman calling 911 and saying "he raped me." Arrest first, sort details later. In this case, its "he sounded really angry and he owns a lot of guns"

If placed on a 72-hour hold (also known as a "5150") as a danger to self or others and admitted
to a facility for psychiatric treatment, you are prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms while you are in the
facility and for five years from the date of admission to the facility. When you are admitted to a facility as a
danger to self/others, the facility is required to notify the state Department of Justice. The Department of
Justice then adds your name to the state mental health firearms prohibition database.
Before discharging you, the facility staff must notify you that you cannot possess or purchase firearms for
a period of five years. At the same time, the staff must advise you of your right to go to court and ask a
judge to restore your right to possess and purchase firearms. If you request this hearing when you are
being discharged from the facility, the staff should provide you with a hearing request form and forward
the form to the court on your behalf. After you are discharged from the facility, you can request a hearing
by calling the California Department of Justice at (916) 227-3664.

This period begins AFTER the conclusion of any prescribed medication, and a doctors affidavit that you are no longer under treatment. (He puts HIS name on the line that you're now safe. Want to guess how many have done so this year? zero.)

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tim9lives said:

Well..you are right. I wasn't really thinking about the spousal abuse aspect of it. I was thinking about the case of a parent of a 22 y/o who notices an extreme change of their child's behavior and personality...yet they can't intervene because the child is an adult.

Its just next to impossible to get an involuntary commitment. And from what I have read...almost all of these recent school shootings were done by people with severe mental health issues. They were not just a little weird. They were sick.

That said....I am totally against the laws you describe above. To ban someone from owning a firearm for 5 years simply because of a charge of abuse is absolutely outrageous. Way too many ex's will abuse that law. Its just what they do when they get pissed.
The scourge of a vengeful woman isn't anything to sneeze at...Thats for damned sure.

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Way too many ex's will abuse that law

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Leonidas said:

Who is "they?"

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