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  • LACamper

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    Just getting back into it. First time since I took karate as a kid (bushido... sort of... lots of sparring, not much training). Anyway, I started about 2 months ago taking karate again as an adult to get back into shape. Great workouts! The karate part still has me questioning if this is what I want to stick with (friends in class so I'm more likely to stick with this), or should I look for a krav maga or silat class (my brother is still pushing Brazilian JJ...) once I get back into shape.
    Its Okinawan karate (Shorin Ryu). Excellent teacher.

    Thoughts? Preferences?
     

    Jack

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    Whatever you pick, if you're doing it for self defense, make sure it includes legitimate sparring against an opponent who is trying to win too.
     

    AustinBR

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    Just getting back into it. First time since I took karate as a kid (bushido... sort of... lots of sparring, not much training). Anyway, I started about 2 months ago taking karate again as an adult to get back into shape. Great workouts! The karate part still has me questioning if this is what I want to stick with (friends in class so I'm more likely to stick with this), or should I look for a krav maga or silat class (my brother is still pushing Brazilian JJ...) once I get back into shape.
    Its Okinawan karate (Shorin Ryu). Excellent teacher.

    Thoughts? Preferences?

    I used to teach Brazilian JJ and TaeKwonDo. BJJ is hands down better than TKD, both workout and self-defense wise, in my opinion. I have taken various Krav Maga classes from a few different instructors and it has always somewhat stood out from the crowd of other martial arts that I have taken. The one here in BR seems to incorporate a superb workout into the intense self-defense learning program.

    For me, grappling was always much more fun than sparring. I never liked wearing all of those pads and such, and not being able to tag people straight in the face creates bad habits...and joining a boxing gym is a good way to get hurt. So six one way, half a dozen the other way.

    I wholeheartedly agree with Jack though. If you are doing something from a self-defense standpoint, you want something where you can each put forth near ALL of your effort and both be trying to win at the same time. That is kind of why I liked BJJ - it's a lot easier for both people to put forward near 100% effort without the risk of serious injury. Stand up sparring always requires a certain degree of restraint so you don't just bloody the other person up.

    As for Karate - It's fun and if you go 3-5 times a week and put effort into every aspect of it, you should see fitness results. Just make sure you pair it with a good diet and maybe a little bit of weight training. Best of luck to ya sir!
     

    Scylas

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    What is your goal with this exactly? Each one has a different purpose, after all.

    You mentioned getting into shape, which is great, but working out without doing martial arts classes is a far less time consuming way to get in shape if all you're wanting to do is get in shape.
     
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    LACamper

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    The goal for now is a fitness program that I'll stick to. I've done (or not done!) gyms before. I need a program that makes me show up at a certain time and notices if I don't show up. This is great for that, plus, like I said, I have friends there.

    I'm learning karate, which is good. I wouldn't say my self defense skills have changed since I started (well, not stand up fighting anyway... the joint locks and ground work is new to me, limited though it is). In the first two weeks we spent some time sparring. I fought one of the black belts and held my own (he was recently ex-military, in shape, and I lost 3 to 2, and it was close! I'm content with that for not training since 1980!). IMHO, we focus too much on katas and not enough on sparring. Sometimes I feel like i'm in a dance class. In 8 weeks I've sparred twice. OTOH, I'm loosing inches and improving in cardio, which is good.
     
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    JBP55

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    The goal for now is a fitness program that I'll stick to. I've done (or not done!) gyms before. I need a program that makes me show up at a certain time and notices if I don't show up. This is great for that, plus, like I said, I have friends there.

    I'm learning karate, which is good. I wouldn't say my self defense skills have changed since I started (well, not stand up fighting anyway... the joint locks and ground work is new to me, limited though it is). In the first two weeks we spent some time sparring. I fought one of the black belts and held my own (he was recently ex-military, in shape, and I lost 3 to 2, and it was close! I'm content with that for not training since 1980!). IMHO, we focus too much on katas and not enough on sparring. Sometimes I feel like i'm in a dance class. In 8 weeks I've sparred twice. OTOH, I'm loosing inches and improving in cardio, which is good.

    If I was not hands on/sparring every class I would move on.
     

    JBP55

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    What he said. And sparring for points is not the best thing either...

    --Sent From My Galaxy S4

    Amen, A visiting Instructor once stopped the sparring when he saw blood coming from my mouth. Our Instructor looked and I said no problem and the sparring continued. After sparring I had to "clean up" before resuming class. We normally sparred at least twice per class wearing safety gear and making contact which at times put someone on the mat. Pulling punches is not good in real life.
    In the 1960's, 1970,s and 1980,s there were people that avoided some Instructors because they were known to instruct "contact sparring". Many of the people studying martial arts are looking for a belt factory rather than learning solid defensive and offensive tactics.
     

    Scylas

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    Sep 13, 2014
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    If you want to get in the best shape, go with Yoga or T'ai Chi. If you're just wanting to get into shape but also want to learn how to fight, stick with Karate. Karate is pretty mainstream, it doesn't have a lot of the oddball stuff like Hapkido has, so you're going to learn the basics you need, like how to throw a punch and you're probably going to learn a few joint locks and stuff. As a word of warning though it is kinda beginner level stuff, typically, and you will reach a ceiling where you can't continue to improve much once you reach a certain point. Yoga and T'ai Chi will get you really into shape and can technically be incorporated into fighting as well, but typically they usually aren't taught over here for that so you're going to have to learn how to apply them to fighting on your own.

    BUT, as far as becoming a actual fighter or good at self defense, I'd personally take Krav Maga if you're just approaching things semi casually.

    If you're really serious about becoming a good fighter, take a Kickboxing class and a BJJ class. I know the BJJ fans are just going to lay into me for saying this, but BJJ in my humble opinion is very lacking in the department of striking, while kickboxing is very lacking in the grappling department. Thus combining the two of them would be a great idea, then take Fencing to get your footwork solid. I know it sounds funny, but Fencers have some of the best footwork of anyone. The first thing you need is to get your striking good though. I mean I'd generally only recommend this approach long term to someone doing MMA or someone that's getting into a lot of fights or lives in the middle of the ghetto, but I felt this stuff deserved honorable mention.
     

    pyreaux

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    For me self defense is end the situation as quickly as possible, meaning incapacity the other person or people and get far away while they're down. Grappling is a good way to get kicked in the head by a guy you didn't see. If it were me I'd stick with striking/throwing and worry about ground game after becoming proficient in creating distance and putting someone down from standing.
     

    madwabbit

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    I've attended a few for education and a few just for a fit hobby. My personal experience is this: just go learn something and spar. You'll learn awful quick what you don't know or what you could improve on.

    I learned way more about my "opportunities for improvement" on open mat night than I ever learned "in class". If you're dead serious about learning top-level self defense, find a reputable and credible instructor and cough up $ for the 1 on 1 time. It's a huge payoff on your investment.
     

    LACamper

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    As I said, my little brother took BJJ for a while (dropped out due to shoulder probs). He gave me a video study guide for the BJJ blue belt test. All I kept thinking was, great, I've got my opponent wrapped up, what do I do with him now??? I guess I could choke him out... Not to mention if my opponent has a buddy... I'll grant that it does have some good takedowns. And knowing some of that could come in handy.

    BTW, the karate I'm taking is about as far from a belt factory as I could hope for. OTOH, looks like i'm going to be the white belt for a while! Belts require performing Katas right, and I'm just not motivated. A small part of me keeps wanting to develop a kata based on the hokey pokey. :)
     

    AustinBR

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    As I said, my little brother took BJJ for a while (dropped out due to shoulder probs). He gave me a video study guide for the BJJ blue belt test. All I kept thinking was, great, I've got my opponent wrapped up, what do I do with him now??? I guess I could choke him out... Not to mention if my opponent has a buddy... I'll grant that it does have some good takedowns. And knowing some of that could come in handy.

    BTW, the karate I'm taking is about as far from a belt factory as I could hope for. OTOH, looks like i'm going to be the white belt for a while! Belts require performing Katas right, and I'm just not motivated. A small part of me keeps wanting to develop a kata based on the hokey pokey. :)

    That is ultimately why I stopped TaeKwonDo after my third degree. Learning (and then teaching) the different forms just got too mundane. Only 10-15% of the actual class time was devoted to sparring. Sure, we did bag and target pad drills, but it really doesn't replace the hands on time of sparring. Comparatively, in high-school, our two hour wrestling practices focused around 90% of the time on hands on full-contact drills and 10% of the time on warming up / warming down (with stretching included). Sure, a decent part of the practice was learning techniques, and then drilling them full-speed, but it was always hands on sparring styled stuff. That is kind of what I expect out of a martial arts program now, and the only one that I have tried that has come close to that is Krav Maga. Everything (from the classes that I took) seemed to be at around 70-100% speed / force and we were sweating not even three minutes in. Occasionally I go back to my old TKD school and the warm-up really seems to be more tailored to older folks than athletic individuals - though I guess that is to be expected.

    I did want to mention something about BJJ. The take downs you learn in BJJ are really similar to what we did in wrestling and they somewhat parallel the takedowns and throws from Judo. All in all, taking someone down to the ground requires some technique and then a decent bit of force. Wrestling and Judo focus more on the force aspect of the spectrum whereas BJJ focuses on the technique aspect. A decent bases in all three though should greatly help in many situations. I think that most people agree that going down the ground is bad and something that should be avoided in a self-defense situation, but I argue that if someone comes and locks up with you, and they are bigger / stronger, quickly slamming the **** out of them onto concrete or whatever surface you are on will likely take the wind out of their sails. Also, it will give you an opportunity to get away if need be.

    That being said, I remember in one of the BJJ seminars that I went to, the guy kept stating how 80% of fights go to the ground or something like that. I think being able to defend yourself on the ground is important and it is definitely not something that is taught in traditional Karate or TKD classes. Do 80% of fights actually go to the ground? I have no idea, but I think devoting a little bit of time and energy to learning groundwork is probably a good thing and hey, it's a hell of a lot of fun too!
     

    LACamper

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    Occasionally I go back to my old TKD school and the warm-up really seems to be more tailored to older folks than athletic individuals - though I guess that is to be expected.

    Hey! I resemble those remarks! :)

    Seriously, I'm not ready yet to try krav maga, etc. I need to get back into shape first. What I had as a teenager was 80% sparring, and I don't know that I'm ready yet for that again. OTOH, 5% sparring is a bit less than I'd hoped. I have to give our sensei credit though, she is great as a fitness trainer! She worked us tonight! I'm going to be sore in the morning...
     

    rtr_rtr

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    I was in a good boxing gym where we weren't sparring every day, including the pros (one of whom is working toward a title shot). Certainly not a necessity. Not necessarily even a good thing imo. That's lots of time getting beat up. Recovery time isn't evil
     
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    Jack

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    As I said, my little brother took BJJ for a while (dropped out due to shoulder probs). He gave me a video study guide for the BJJ blue belt test. All I kept thinking was, great, I've got my opponent wrapped up, what do I do with him now??? I guess I could choke him out... Not to mention if my opponent has a buddy... I'll grant that it does have some good takedowns. And knowing some of that could come in handy.

    BTW, the karate I'm taking is about as far from a belt factory as I could hope for. OTOH, looks like i'm going to be the white belt for a while! Belts require performing Katas right, and I'm just not motivated. A small part of me keeps wanting to develop a kata based on the hokey pokey. :)

    I think the biggest practical value of BJJ is getting back to your feet. I've got a very limited understanding of any grappling beyond hip escapes, sweeping from being mounted, and transitioning out of the guard. Those really basic skills are a huge leg up over people who don't have them. You can't remove yourself from a situation with someone else on top of you.
     

    AustinBR

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    I think the biggest practical value of BJJ is getting back to your feet. I've got a very limited understanding of any grappling beyond hip escapes, sweeping from being mounted, and transitioning out of the guard. Those really basic skills are a huge leg up over people who don't have them. You can't remove yourself from a situation with someone else on top of you.

    Don't forget the "Upa", Jack! :)

    --Sent From My Galaxy S4
     

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