Possible Stikcy topic? Gun Control debate??

The Best online firearms community in Louisiana.

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • MTregre

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jan 11, 2013
    811
    18
    St. Charles Parish
    Over the past couple of years the debate for gun control has grown more and more. In some areas of the nation the left has been successful and likewise, in others the right has been successful.

    What we have come to see is that each side uses "fact" to argue their stance in the form of studies, research, and statistics. Each of those is greatly dependent on the information used and parameters set.

    I think it would be a great addition to this site, and our community, if we could have an area/thread where we can post links to studies, research, and statistics. These should reframe from being from biased sites or sources and include authors, citations/sources used.

    I've read some pretty political things on this site, and some good arguments. Also seen some good articles posted, that I think shouldn't be lost to the masses. Having an area to post them for everyone's reading, to me, sounds like a good idea.
     

    machinedrummer

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Apr 5, 2010
    3,685
    113
    Kingwood, Tx
    I think anyone who consumes alcohol should not be allowed to get a drivers license or buy a vehicle. That would save many more lives each year than gun control.
     

    AustinBR

    Make your own luck
    Staff member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Oct 22, 2012
    10,792
    113
    Over the past couple of years the debate for gun control has grown more and more. In some areas of the nation the left has been successful and likewise, in others the right has been successful.

    What we have come to see is that each side uses "fact" to argue their stance in the form of studies, research, and statistics. Each of those is greatly dependent on the information used and parameters set.

    I think it would be a great addition to this site, and our community, if we could have an area/thread where we can post links to studies, research, and statistics. These should reframe from being from biased sites or sources and include authors, citations/sources used.

    I've read some pretty political things on this site, and some good arguments. Also seen some good articles posted, that I think shouldn't be lost to the masses. Having an area to post them for everyone's reading, to me, sounds like a good idea.

    Start the thread, supply the initial information, and I will sticky it. PM me if you have any questions or want help.

    Austin
     

    US Infidel

    TRUST NO ONE
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Jan 30, 2012
    1,956
    38
    Earth
    So a gun control debate on a gun forum? Are you looking for people on this forum to oppose gun ownership? And then sticky it so anyone on the net can see that people on a gun forum argue about gun control? Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong...... ?
     

    Hattrick 22

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Aug 13, 2011
    1,653
    38
    Kenner, Louisiana
    I'd like to correct the term that was coined "gun control" and call it "further invasion of privacy"

    You can't control what is so vastly available. It just makes sheep sleep better at night thinking that ANOTHER law will save them...
     

    Metryshooter

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jul 11, 2010
    796
    16
    What's the point in having the discussion? To have 'sensible concessions'? It's merely a discussion of reason vs. Absolutes. Most gun owners aren't saying the general populace should have access to howitzers, while most of the anti crowd wants zero guns. As firearm advocates you're already starting on uneven ground. Notice how any concession only goes into the more restrictive direction. At which point will we trully conceed into legislation surpassing England, for example?
     

    225todd

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 6, 2011
    128
    18
    Shreveport, LA
    So a gun control debate on a gun forum? Are you looking for people on this forum to oppose gun ownership? And then sticky it so anyone on the net can see that people on a gun forum argue about gun control? Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong...... ?

    I think he is looking for a fact list in support of gun rights. More or less something you could go to in order to strengthen your argument. We could call it "A Study Guide on how to argue with a Liberal"
     

    Slalom.45

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 10, 2013
    334
    18
    Lafayette, LA
    I believe that is already available. I listen to Tom Gresham's podcast all the time and he mentions several sources. Seems it is John Lott who does research on gun statistics. He wrote "More Guns, Less Crime" among others and has lots of research on the use of guns. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
     

    DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________
    I think he is looking for a fact list in support of gun rights. More or less something you could go to in order to strengthen your argument. We could call it "A Study Guide on how to argue with a Liberal"

    Careful using that word, Liberal. Some mods here get a little butthurt when you don't say nice things about that word.

    Anyway, "A study guide on how to argue with an anti-gunner" is more appropriate, and it's an easy one: Just present the facts.

    Most anti-gunners happen to be from the far far far left, and we all know those nimrods can't understand anything. They are the same goofballs that start trending hashtags when a thug dies, but are nowhere to be found when the same thugs kill innocent toddlers.
     

    MTregre

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jan 11, 2013
    811
    18
    St. Charles Parish
    Guys, its not a debate thread. A thread where we can post items such as "More Guns, Less Crime". Not everyone here knows where to find this stuff, from reputable sources anyway. So, as we come across them, I think it would be good to file them away for the community to use and read. More of a spreading of knowledge rather than to continue the debate.
     

    Emperor

    Seriously Misunderstood!
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Mar 7, 2011
    8,376
    113
    Nether region
    Guys, its not a debate thread. A thread where we can post items such as "More Guns, Less Crime". Not everyone here knows where to find this stuff, from reputable sources anyway. So, as we come across them, I think it would be good to file them away for the community to use and read. More of a spreading of knowledge rather than to continue the debate.

    MTrege, if you answer this question; what makes you carry/own/have guns? You would be surprised how effective that/those answers work when it comes to an anti-gun sentiment.

    However, I suppose it would be interesting to see what people will offer as your "Sticky." I will add the US Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence in your sticky! That's really all you need.
     

    Rainsdrops

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    57   0   0
    Nov 17, 2010
    648
    16
    Houma
    Does accurate information truly exist? Inorder to to produce accurate gun control / violence data, one would need to analyze 100 percent of the population. Even FBI data isn't truly accurate. Gun control removes a person ability to self protect and defend themselves period. You have and will always have violent people. No type of social control, will change that.
     

    MTregre

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jan 11, 2013
    811
    18
    St. Charles Parish
    MTrege, if you answer this question; what makes you carry/own/have guns? You would be surprised how effective that/those answers work when it comes to an anti-gun sentiment.

    However, I suppose it would be interesting to see what people will offer as your "Sticky." I will add the US Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence in your sticky! That's really all you need.

    Absolutely, BUT there does exist statistical information to use against those who feel animosity towards the Constitution... which is becoming a large portion of this population.
     

    DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________
    Absolutely, BUT there does exist statistical information to use against those who feel animosity towards the Constitution... which is becoming a large portion of this population.

    So what exactly are you looking for? Typically, stickies are filled with information provided by the OP, that are worthy of being stuck.
     

    Emperor

    Seriously Misunderstood!
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Mar 7, 2011
    8,376
    113
    Nether region
    Absolutely, BUT there does exist statistical information to use against those who feel animosity towards the Constitution... which is becoming a large portion of this population.

    Any US citizen that has a problem with the US Constitution is by definition, an anarchist of the USA. You are only a citizen, protected by the laws and benefits of the USA, because of the US Constitution!

    Even if all you recognize is the 1st Amendment (which many a phony liberal douche act is the only one that matters), you do so at the altar of the 2nd!

    Your sticky better contain copious amounts of early American Colonial history, because the morons of today NEVER acknowledge the lessons learned yesterday.
     

    Rhandhali

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 26, 2013
    284
    16
    New Orleans
    I think he is looking for a fact list in support of gun rights. More or less something you could go to in order to strengthen your argument. We could call it "A Study Guide on how to argue with a Liberal"

    I would think it's useful to do as well. It's worth looking at anti-gunner arguments to know what kind of data and lines of reasoning are going to be used to shape public perception and ultimately public policy. Know your enemy and all that.
     

    WildBillKelso

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jan 12, 2015
    224
    16
    Northshore/New Orleans
    Prepare for a info dump: Perhaps I will break this up into multiple posts and start with the opposition first.

    Preface: I moved from the mostly anti-gun state of Maryland and have been coping with my "battered gun owner's syndrome" from living there. It was one of the epicenters of the 2013 actions towards more gun control so I got in deep with doing as much damage control as possible on the state level. I got a lot of information from it about what people like Daniel Webster claim. He is a public health "researcher" that works at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg school of public health. He does a lot of "studies" that always say guns are unhealthy and dangerous. Much of what I have to share mostly impacts the mid-atlantic region media and politics but it does get picked up on nationally syndicated media and quoted by national and other state politicians. So here goes with references.

    Daniel Webster's "studies" and their downfall under federal court deposition:

    Here is Webster's main book on "evidence based gun policy": https://jhupbooks.press.jhu.edu/content/reducing-gun-violence-america

    Here is Webster's latest "study" in which he compares current Connecticut to a hypothetical, make believe Connecticut of his design without the new gun laws. Statistics and modeling experts will have fun tearing this one apart.
    http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302703

    He was deposed in the federal court lawsuit over the 2013 gun control laws.

    His Deposition(giving much ground): https://www.marylandshallissue.com/share/d-daniel-webster.pdf

    The deposition of the person that was his sole reference in his "study" backing off of claims that the Clinton ban was effective: https://www.marylandshallissue.com/share/d-chris-kopel.pdf


    -"No one is trying to take your guns" Believe that and I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. The antis just learned they do not get anywhere with a frontal assault so they are more subtle about it these days. Here are some older publications that show their true intent.
    Penned in 1999 by then Attorney General of MD, Peter Curran, he is the patriarch of the Curran and co. political group and father in law to former Gov. O'Malley.
    http://rkba.org/research/curran/guns.pdf

    Ever wonder how anti-gun people say the same thing and use the same buzz words? Here is their messaging playbook. Note their soft pedaling and emotional reliance.
    http://86262a2d5a8678610839-0d14e49ee6aa00b4013e3b6293913ee7.r99.cf1.rackcdn.com/Gun%20ViolenceMessaging%20Guide%20PDF-1.pdf

    I'll break for now.
     

    WildBillKelso

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jan 12, 2015
    224
    16
    Northshore/New Orleans
    Returning to this thread to post up some links to information that supports our side.

    The 2013 CDC study that Obama ordered backfired on him. One of the major take aways is there are at least as many, if not more defensive uses of guns by crime victims as is guns used in crime.
    http://www.nap.edu/catalog/18319/priorities-for-research-to-reduce-the-threat-of-firearm-related-violence

    Most people know of the work of John Lott titled More Guns, Less Crime. If not here it is. It has come under attack of course, but I don't believe it has been roundly rejected as an academic work without merit.
    http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493636

    Want raw numbers for crimes involving guns? The FBI maintains a public website for that. It is a good resource to counter people whining hyperbolie over "assault weapons", "high capacity magazines", and "epidemic of gun violence". They put up a huge variety of cross referencing spreadsheets that factor in many societal aspects that affect violent crime. Its good for a few hours of just browsing prior to pulling information.
    https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr
     

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    195,236
    Messages
    1,546,165
    Members
    29,172
    Latest member
    ksgunner82
    Top Bottom