So apparently the SEALs

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  • Suburbazine

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    Breach rooms in said manner. Red lines added to show entry paths (wrong) and door bounding (supposedly new/becoming introduced :rolleyes:). This is the actual picture used in the presentation (paths were laser pointed and described, I added lines for explanation).

    NBL5zw.jpg


    I wasn't taught this way and was wondering if this is considered the "norm" for peace officers/SWAT teams. Someone posed a series of (what I feel are) tactically unsound strategies for engaging an active shooter (unknown status, rough location) during a church carry class (this person will remain anonymous, out of courtesy and in the event that they were incorrect for the sake of brevity or something).
     
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    DAVE_M

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    Why are you learning room clearing techniques in a church carry class?
     

    Suburbazine

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    OK I must LOL at first 3 responses (a simple "no" will validate my question, I'd sure as hell not want to hear "yes") and as for the fourth one I don't know. It was volunteered information.
     
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    enigmedic

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    Suburb, anyone who said it is "top secret" has never been involved in government police work, federal, state, or local. The fundamentals are universally accepted and don't rely on secrecy to be effective. Dynamic Entry uses diversion, overwhelming speed, and surprise. As in are you going to stand there in a high ready position alone for 12 hours waiting for a chalk to enter? The DE methods and equipment are usually showcased at public relations events as well as media functions to justify funding and public support, as no one wants to hear about clerical duties or dispatching protocols. There is a great deal of information out there are clearing and entry methods, all dependent upon the manpower and resources at your disposal. The main thing that I would like to contribute is to be wary of anything labeled SEAL; there is a 100 to 1 ratio of phony/ wannabe types for every legitimate SEAL, and no shortage of pretenders using their name to peddle a product.
     

    Suburbazine

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    Suburb, anyone who said it is "top secret" has never been involved in government police work, federal, state, or local. The fundamentals are universally accepted and don't rely on secrecy to be effective. Dynamic Entry uses diversion, overwhelming speed, and surprise. As in are you going to stand there in a high ready position alone for 12 hours waiting for a chalk to enter? The DE methods and equipment are usually showcased at public relations events as well as media functions to justify funding and public support, as no one wants to hear about clerical duties or dispatching protocols. There is a great deal of information out there are clearing and entry methods, all dependent upon the manpower and resources at your disposal. The main thing that I would like to contribute is to be wary of anything labeled SEAL; there is a 100 to 1 ratio of phony/ wannabe types for every legitimate SEAL, and no shortage of pretenders using their name to peddle a product.

    Yes, that is the methodology that I learned, force of action, diversionary device deployment (obviously a civvy isn't going to have this) on the bound, deep corner clear is top priority over anything else present, etc.

    And then there was the diamond (scorpion?) formation with the man in the middle, physically steering a shooter formation in a hall with his hands like the Brit riot teams like to do with shield walls...:rofl:
     

    Suburbazine

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    You have my attention.



    Me too. There's nothing like BS.com story time.

    JR1572

    So, we were on the topic of knowing what was behind the walls if we had to shoot in a building. He made a statement about using frangibles to prevent penetrating sheetrock, that we should keep at least one mag full of them in the event we encounter a shooter in a building. He outright denied me when I stated that frangible rounds in a handgun do not remotely possess the power to stop a human unless you're lucky, nor do they shatter correctly when they hit sheetrock. He stated he used frangible in his .223 platform and it performed wonderfully well against human targets and had limited penetration of walls. As the conversation progressed, I brought up the ability of a hollowpoint or FMJ in most calibers other than .22 to pass through more than 14 sheets of sheetrock. As a result of this, he mentioned than when he is on SWAT (ok, I'm getting risky with the identification here) entering a building thought to contain only criminal elements, a noise of someone brushing against the other side of a wall was grounds to blind fire through the wall.

    Then there was the discussion of single-person response, where you hear a shooter engaging on the far side of the building and need to sprint through several hallways, stop and be able to engage the shooter accurately on the other side. No mention was made of checking corners or exercising due caution before you might find Shooter 2; the general tactical level was about on par with a Call of Duty game.

    I can't make this **** up if I tried.
     
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    JR1572

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    So, we were on the topic of knowing what was behind the walls if we had to shoot in a building. He made a statement about using frangibles to prevent penetrating sheetrock, that we should keep at least one mag full of them in the event we encounter a shooter in a building. He outright denied me when I stated that frangible rounds in a handgun do not remotely possess the power to stop a human unless you're lucky, nor do they shatter correctly when they hit sheetrock. He stated he used frangible in his .223 platform and it performed wonderfully well against human targets and had limited penetration of walls. As the conversation progressed, I brought up the ability of a hollowpoint or FMJ in most calibers other than .22 to pass through more than 14 sheets of sheetrock. As a result of this, he mentioned than when he is on SWAT (ok, I'm getting risky with the identification here) entering a building thought to contain only criminal elements, a noise of someone brushing against the other side of a wall was grounds to blind fire through the wall.

    Then there was the discussion of single-person response, where you hear a shooter engaging on the far side of the building and need to sprint through several hallways, stop and be able to engage the shooter accurately on the other side. No mention was made of checking corners or exercising due caution before you might find Shooter 2; the general tactical level was about on par with a Call of Duty game.

    I can't make this **** up if I tried.

    Ugh. All of that is dumb.

    JR1572
     

    AustinBR

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    So, we were on the topic of knowing what was behind the walls if we had to shoot in a building. He made a statement about using frangibles to prevent penetrating sheetrock, that we should keep at least one mag full of them in the event we encounter a shooter in a building. He outright denied me when I stated that frangible rounds in a handgun do not remotely possess the power to stop a human unless you're lucky, nor do they shatter correctly when they hit sheetrock. He stated he used frangible in his .223 platform and it performed wonderfully well against human targets and had limited penetration of walls. As the conversation progressed, I brought up the ability of a hollowpoint or FMJ in most calibers other than .22 to pass through more than 14 sheets of sheetrock. As a result of this, he mentioned than when he is on SWAT (ok, I'm getting risky with the identification here) entering a building thought to contain only criminal elements, a noise of someone brushing against the other side of a wall was grounds to blind fire through the wall.

    Then there was the discussion of single-person response, where you hear a shooter engaging on the far side of the building and need to sprint through several hallways, stop and be able to engage the shooter accurately on the other side. No mention was made of checking corners or exercising due caution before you might find Shooter 2; the general tactical level was about on par with a Call of Duty game.

    I can't make this **** up if I tried.

    Everyone knows that hollowpoint handgun rounds don't go through walls bro! C'mon :P
     

    DAVE_M

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    So you received, in your opinion, bad training? It may be beneficial to others if you told us who was giving this "training." It could possibly prevent folks from doing something they shouldn't be doing.
     

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