HB 142 CARON vs US. RS 14:95.1

The Best online firearms community in Louisiana.

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • cooler07

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 6, 2014
    4
    1
    TX
    I've been lurking here for some time. So here my situation.

    Because of felony conviction in 1981 for simple burglary Louisiana and an NCIS firearm purchase denial in late 2014.

    MY first and only crime and I was given a Louisiana first offender pardon after 3 years supervised probation. Yes VERY stupid at 18 years old, for taking a car from where I worked. Yes it has been 36 years since and something you never forget or stop paying for. I broke the law so I should pay.

    Before this I purchased a firearm in 2000 and I just had to submit paper work finger prints, pardon paper work, etc, and all was good after new NCIS check. Have since given my firearms away.

    So back to 2014. My denial was sent and I got CARON vs. USA ruling.......triggering the unless clause.

    So I found this forum and watched as a group of really good people worked hard to correct wording problem in the carrying concealed weapon law.

    HB 142 passed 8/2016 and everything looked good. BUT......................

    10/1/2016 I tried to purchase weapon and was denied again. Never received a denial letter as to why.

    After contacting FBI, I was informed that since my pardon just says "civil right restored" not "gun rights" that I could not possess any firearms.

    Also that under Louisiana I could receive a CCW, BUT under federal law I would still be prohibited from possessing a firearm. That could get you 10 years in federal bang me in the ass prison!!!! no thanks............

    As I read RS 14:95.1 "I'm not a lawyer" It states on first line in part.

    A. It is unlawful for any person who has been convicted of a crime of violence as defined in R.S. 14:2(B) which is a felony or simple burglary, burglary of a pharmacy, burglary of an inhabited dwelling, unauthorized entry of an inhabited dwelling, felony illegal use of weapons or dangerous instrumentalities, manufacture or possession of a delayed action incendiary device, manufacture or possession of a bomb, or possession of a firearm while in the possession of or during the sale or distribution of a controlled dangerous substance, or any violation of the Uniform Controlled Dangerous Substances Law which is a felony, or any crime which is defined as a sex offense in R.S. 15:541, or any crime defined as an attempt to commit one of the above-enumerated offenses under the laws of this state, or who has been convicted under the laws of any other state or of the United States or of any foreign government or country of a crime which, if committed in this state, would be one of the above-enumerated crimes, to possess a firearm or carry a concealed weapon.
    B. Whoever is found guilty of violating the provisions of this Section shall be imprisoned at hard labor for not less than ten nor more than twenty years without the benefit of probation, parole, or suspension of sentence and be fined not less than one thousand dollars nor more than five thousand dollars. Notwithstanding the provisions of R.S. 14:27, whoever is found guilty of attempting to violate the provisions of this Section shall be imprisoned at hard labor for not more than seven and one-half years and fined not less than five hundred dollars nor more than two thousand five hundred dollars.
    C. The provisions of this Section prohibiting the possession of firearms and carrying concealed weapons by persons who have been convicted of certain felonies shall not apply to any person who has not been convicted of any felony for a period of ten years from the date of completion of sentence, probation, parole, or suspension of sentence.
    D. For the purposes of this Section, "firearm" means any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, submachine gun, black powder weapon, or assault rifle which is designed to fire or is capable of firing fixed cartridge ammunition or from which a shot or projectile is discharged by an explosive.

    With the 2 bold statements looking like they cover each other.

    Granted under R.S. 14:2(B) simple burglary is not listed. But one of the above-enumerated offenses. is listed.

    Then you have this.

    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(20) provides:
    *Any conviction which has been expunged, or set aside or for which a person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored shall not be considered a conviction for purposes of this chapter, unless such pardon, expungement, or restoration of civil rights expressly [or implicitly as a matter of state law] provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms


    So to me its a catch 22 and from the FBI view they don't give a crap. They will interpret the law as they see fit.

    So it's the end of road for me restoring gun rights, and I would say to anyone else, that if you have a first offender pardon, and has since acquired a CCW, watch your back-side!

    Thanks to all who worked to change law, and for letting me lurk here!!!!:):)
     
    Last edited:

    cooler07

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 6, 2014
    4
    1
    TX
    Thanks for rely;

    After talking with FBI lady in legal, I came to the understanding that when they reference state law they don't read past paragraph A to look at D......
     

    cooler07

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 6, 2014
    4
    1
    TX
    I guess I should have lurked longer!

    It looks like you need a Governor’s Gold Seal Pardon! the auto first pardon doesn't work.

    Again great informative site!!!!

    Chhers!!!!!
     

    coance

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 25, 2014
    115
    16
    Haughton la
    From LSP website

    The passage of Act 212 of the 2016 Regular Legislative Session (Effective August 1, 2016) amended and reenacted R.S. 40:1379.3(C)(6) and (10), relative to concealed handgun permits; to provide that a person who has obtained an expungement for a felony conviction shall not be considered ineligible to obtain a concealed handgun permit if:
    The person's felony conviction was not for a crime of violence (as defined in R.S. 14:2(B)) and 10 years have elapsed since the completion of the person's probation, parole, and suspended sentence.
    or

    The person has been pardoned by the governor and the pardon does not expressly prohibit the person from shipping, transporting, possessing, or receiving firearms (Governor’s Gold Seal Pardon must expressly state the right to ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms has been restored).
     

    nolaboy

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 7, 2015
    261
    18
    New Orleans Lousiana
    For Non Violent Felonies ie ones that are not listed under 14:2 (B) its supposed to be.....SUPPOSED TO BE....if you have an Expungment for the Felony you are good to go. I just got a NICS letter sustaining a denial stating that my offense is listed under 14:2(B) which was felony possession of narcotics. The problem is that NO narcotics related offenses are listed under 14:2(B) 14:2(B) is not 14:95.1(A), and 14:95.1(a) times out with Clause (c) for felonies not listed in 14:2(B) as long as you can obtain an Expungment for the crime (not a lawyer just my interpretation). Louisiana's ATTY Generals have addressed similar questions to law enforcment mentioning simple burglary as a Non-violent offense. I would encourage you to check them out https://www.ag.state.la.us/Opinions

    (My interpretation)Crimes of Violence are acts committed against other humans. Like trying to poison someone, use rohepnol to date rape, armed robbery, battery on an officer or killing someone while DUI.

    In all fairness just keeping up with the laws of Louisiana is an exercise can you imagine keeping up with the laws from all 50 states plus federal? Then considering they have such a backlog from not processing appeals for so long they are just hitting the deny button as quick as possible.

    14:2(B) crimes of violence excerpt:

    "B. In this Code, "crime of violence" means an offense that has, as an element, the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person or property of another, and that, by its very nature, involves a substantial risk that physical force against the person or property of another may be used in the course of committing the offense or an offense that involves the possession or use of a dangerous weapon. The following enumerated offenses and attempts to commit any of them are included as "crimes of violence"" (1) Solicitation for murder.

    (2) First degree murder.

    (3) Second degree murder.

    (4) Manslaughter.

    (5) Aggravated battery.

    (6) Second degree battery.

    (7) Aggravated assault.

    (8) Mingling harmful substances.

    (9) Aggravated or first degree rape.

    (10) Forcible or second degree rape.

    (11) Simple or third degree rape.

    (12) Sexual battery.

    (13) Second degree sexual battery.

    (14) Intentional exposure to AIDS virus.

    (15) Aggravated kidnapping.

    (16) Second degree kidnapping.

    (17) Simple kidnapping.

    (18) Aggravated arson.

    (19) Aggravated criminal damage to property.

    (20) Aggravated burglary.

    (21) Armed robbery.

    (22) First degree robbery.

    (23) Simple robbery.

    (24) Purse snatching.

    (25) Extortion.

    (26) Assault by drive-by shooting.

    (27) Aggravated crime against nature.

    (28) Carjacking.

    (29) Illegal use of weapons or dangerous instrumentalities.

    (30) Terrorism.

    (31) Aggravated second degree battery.

    (32) Aggravated assault upon a peace officer.

    (33) Aggravated assault with a firearm.

    (34) Armed robbery; use of firearm; additional penalty.

    (35) Second degree robbery.

    (36) Disarming of a peace officer.

    (37) Stalking.

    (38) Second degree cruelty to juveniles.

    (39) Aggravated flight from an officer.

    (40) Repealed by Acts 2014, No. 602, §7, eff. June 12, 2014.

    (41) Battery of a police officer.

    (42) Trafficking of children for sexual purposes.

    (43) Human trafficking.

    (44) Home invasion.

    (45) Domestic abuse aggravated assault.

    (46) Vehicular homicide, when the operator's blood alcohol concentration exceeds 0.20 percent by weight based on grams of alcohol per one hundred cubic centimeters of blood.
     
    Last edited:

    cooler07

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 6, 2014
    4
    1
    TX
    Hi nolaboy;

    Yeah I have been following your post on this, and as your state just keeping up with the laws is unreal.

    They denied mine again using the "unless claws" because my pardon doesn't say word for word,
    "Gold Seal Pardon must expressly state the right to ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms has been restored"
    that is listed on the CCW paper work. So again it's the all or nothing problem.

    I'll be looking into the expungement process because the laws have been changed, but really I don't think it will work!

    Once a felon always a felon I guess! Even if they had said after 35 years for Non Violent crime you good to go, some where there would be a miss worded law or claws!!!!!!

    But I'll keep trying I guess, you never know,!!!:)
     

    nolaboy

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 7, 2015
    261
    18
    New Orleans Lousiana
    Hi nolaboy;

    Yeah I have been following your post on this, and as your state just keeping up with the laws is unreal.

    They denied mine again using the "unless claws" because my pardon doesn't say word for word,
    "Gold Seal Pardon must expressly state the right to ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms has been restored"
    that is listed on the CCW paper work. So again it's the all or nothing problem.

    I'll be looking into the expungement process because the laws have been changed, but really I don't think it will work!

    Once a felon always a felon I guess! Even if they had said after 35 years for Non Violent crime you good to go, some where there would be a miss worded law or claws!!!!!!

    But I'll keep trying I guess, you never know,!!!:)
    Just fyi first offenders pardons are not enough anymore. You are required to have a official Governor's Pardon aka "Gold Seal Pardon" . If you have a Gold Seal Pardon, and it does not say anywhere on it that you are prohibited from firearms possession then you are good to go. If all you have is a first offenders pardon you will also need an expungement along with meeting all of the other criteria in 14:95.1c, and 40:1379.1(c)6)&10)). After that if denied it would be a good idea to lawyer up. Legally there is no ground for the denial (again not a lawyer) if the crime isn't specifically stated in 14:2(b).

    Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
     

    BlackBalled

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 3, 2014
    34
    8
    Ethel, LA
    Get the expungement, then get your CCW. It worked for me. No more monkey business from the feds.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
     

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    195,232
    Messages
    1,546,157
    Members
    29,172
    Latest member
    ksgunner82
    Top Bottom