HELP!! Gunsmith won't return firearm!! Where do I go from here???

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    sevenpt62

    Well-Known Member
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    Oct 14, 2008
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    hammond, la
    Hey guys I need some help. I dropped off a pistol to a gunsmith (Jake all American Gunsmithing ) on this forum who was recommended by a few people on here to get some checkering and other work done. Well long story short it was dropped off to him back in June. He originally said that it would take a couple of weeks to get done because he had some stuff going on and also needed to order some files for the checkering job. Ok no problem it was a safe queen anyway so no big deal on the wait. Anyway multiple weeks go by and gun still isn't complete even after he said it would be done, still no big deal. Well now it's august and the gun still isn't complete and no communication from him, this is how patient we were. Now the epic flood comes around. After multiple attempts to contact him with no response after leaving voicemails and texts ( this was a good bit after the incident because I knew he must have been dealing with his house and other things) I finally get in contact with him just to make sure the gun was ok and he explained how he got flooded out but the gun is ok. I tell him don't worry about finishing the gun I'll just come get it I understand he probably has his hands full. He says ok, well more time goes by and I am able to get in touch with him again to try to arrange to pick the gun up. Problem is every time I AM able to get him on the phone he always has a reason he can't meet. And this is after leaving texts and voicemails which haven't been returned before finally getting him on the phone. All I am trying to do is pick the gun up!!! Anyway just recently I had finally gotten back in touch with him to try to pick it up and now he had an excuse that someone passed in his family and he couldn't meet up. Keep in mind we have been trying to meet him at his residence to pick it up which would take all of 2 minutes to come outside and give us the pistol. So now he is saying that he is going to ship the pistol to me, which I don't understand because it would be harder to do that than to let me pick it up. So he said he would ship the gun out to me by Tuesday (2/14). Well today came and went with no response to my texts or voicemail. What should I do from here? Call police and file the gun as stolen? Take legal action? Help!!
    Tl;dr dropped a 1911 off to get work done in June, work never completed and now gunsmith will still not return gun after countless times of trying to meet up to pick it up
     

    Gringo Loco

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    now he had an excuse that someone passed in his family and he couldn't meet up.

    I will say that if someone accused me of lying, or using an "excuse," just after my VERY VERY VERY close family member died, and I was the one who had to help with all the arrangements and support the entire family and all that comes with the "EPIC FLOOD" aftermath (seeing how there is NO ONE who can say the extent to the damages and how far reaching they were), I would be beyond angry.

    I understand you are frustrated. I understand the internet is an easy way for mole hills to explode into the flaming mountains of inflammatory reputation-destroying accusations. ...But, I would tread carefully about accusing him of lying. Especially, during this time of loss for his family (not to mention the hellacious year they had in 2016 [as did some of us on this forum]).

    Facts maybe facts, but when mingled with the frustrated accusation of an angry person and the internet, it doesn't boast well in civility and honor. It's easy to see one side.
     

    Brawny

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    I will say that if someone accused me of lying, or using an "excuse," just after my VERY VERY VERY close family member died, and I was the one who had to help with all the arrangements and support the entire family and all that comes with the "EPIC FLOOD" aftermath (seeing how there is NO ONE who can say the extent to the damages and how far reaching they were), I would be beyond angry.

    I understand you are frustrated. I understand the internet is an easy way for mole hills to explode into the flaming mountains of inflammatory reputation-destroying accusations. ...But, I would tread carefully about accusing him of lying. Especially, during this time of loss for his family (not to mention the hellacious year they had in 2016 [as did some of us on this forum]).

    Facts maybe facts, but when mingled with the frustrated accusation of an angry person and the internet, it doesn't boast well in civility and honor. It's easy to see one side.

    He said it was an excuse, no more. I agree though, that's a pretty good excuse but rescheduling the next week should not be too much of a task.
     

    bigjakewelch

    Mill Spec
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    Mar 19, 2010
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    I have on multiple occasions spoke with you about picking this fire arm up. I have never once said that you couldn't come get your gun, or come pick it up. If you look on my website and by the things that I have told you numerous times I work by appointment only. This means that you call me we set up a time that is good for you ,and that I will be there, and you come and pick your gun up or drop your gun off. That is how it works. I have never once not communicated with you or your brother. What I have done on multiple occasions is tried to accommodate you and adjust my schedule to try and get this back to you. We set up a possible pick up this past weekend (which would have worked out) but those plans were interrupted by the death of a very close family member. I explained that to you over the phone when we were trying to set a time for pickup. After those didn't work out, I offered to send you your firearm back at my cost via FedEx. I felt as though it would be the right thing to do because I couldn't get up with you this past weekend. After reading your post this morning I remembered that this is completely against my policy. Policy states that if the owner of the firearm drops the firearm off at my location the owner of the firearm shall come and receive the firearm at my location. The owner of the firearm is seen as the person who dropped the firearm off. No one else can receive said firearm from my location other than the person who dropped the firearm off. If you get me a FFL holder in your area I will gladly send your firearms out. This firearm was dropped off July 23rd. After speaking with you in the beginning of September I told you that the tooling that I did my checkering with was lost in the flood and that I didn't plan on purchasing new tooling we set a date of September 17th for pickup. You never showed up nor did you call to cancel or advised. We spoke again in the middle of Oct and set a time and date for pickup on Oct 23rd after 1:00pm. Once again no show, but you did answer my call to tell me that it would be much later that afternoon before you could get out to me. This didn't work because I had other appointments that were scheduled. You went silent for months. Finally I hear from you about 3 weeks ago to come and pick up the firearm. You wanted me to let your sister come and pick up the firearm(I can't do that). I gave you several other possibilities as to a time for you to come and pick up the firearm. None of those worked out for you.

    My schedule is somewhat flexible but I will not deviate from the policy I have in place, nor will I deviate from the regulations of the ATF. As I stated before I will gladly ship the firearm to a FFL with a valid Lic. (at my cost) Or you can come by and pick your firearm up in person, with a valid State issued ID, or another form of approved ID as per the ATF regulations. If you would like to discuss this like an adult then I would suggest that you call me at (225)244-1686. You made it sound like the death in the family was an excuse to keep from giving you the firearm back. I added a pick just for you.
     
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    bigjakewelch

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    Contrary to what you may believe I do not want your gun! I have plenty of my own! The last thing that I want to do is have more guns in my possession that don't belong to me. I try and get firearms in, and get them out as quickly as possible. But I work by appointment only! This was something that is known and discussed prior to anyone ever dropping a firearm of with me.


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    AustinBR

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    Well it seems this is handled. I hope everything works out between you two.

    Jake - I removed your pictures from the thread. I see no sense in broadcasting your or his address on the internet. It doesn't help anything with the situation and is just a can of worms that we choose to keep closed on BayouShooter. If you want to repost without personal identifying information to show the timeline, please feel free.
     

    bigjakewelch

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    Well it seems this is handled. I hope everything works out between you two.

    Jake - I removed your pictures from the thread. I see no sense in broadcasting your or his address on the internet. It doesn't help anything with the situation and is just a can of worms that we choose to keep closed on BayouShooter. If you want to repost without personal identifying information to show the timeline, please feel free.

    Sorry about the addresses being posted. I fixed it. I guess I got a little trigger happy, being that my reputation was being called to question falsely. I will proof read better in the future. I understand that there was an incident that I dropped the ball,and I admitted that it was my fault,but I made it right, and 1 problem in 8 years isn't a bad track record. This is not a situation that is even remotely close to that. This is a situation where a guy forgot about his firearm for several months, and now wants to bash me about it.
    8b07d2d28f69cb4127fa50d396765bd6.png
    ab7d452d98e394928248b1df1ac0d49e.png

    After this text is where you picked up your TLE and dropped off the other Kimber. Not in June as you stated in your OP.
     
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    Magdump

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    Dec 31, 2013
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    Jake, if you peer back over this thread, I just wanna say how sorry I am for the multitude of problems that you have been cursed with this year. I support you brother and appreciate the service you've given me time and again. Praying for good things to come your way and for the tough times to get behind you post haste. Bless you and your family.
     

    tallwalker

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    Jul 24, 2012
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    Jake, if you peer back over this thread, I just wanna say how sorry I am for the multitude of problems that you have been cursed with this year. I support you brother and appreciate the service you've given me time and again. Praying for good things to come your way and for the tough times to get behind you post haste. Bless you and your family.

    Ditto from me as well Big Jake. It has been a tough year for a lot of us and it is during those times when we are tested the most. Those of us that know you also know your character and that don't take the easy way out on anything. You will get through it all just fine. Take a tight strain my friend.
     

    DBMJR1

    Madame Mayor's Fiefdom
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    23   0   0
    Jul 27, 2008
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    New Orleans, La.
    Hey guys I need some help. I dropped off a pistol to a gunsmith (Jake all American Gunsmithing ) on this forum who was recommended by a few people on here to get some checkering and other work done. Well long story short it was dropped off to him back in June. He originally said that it would take a couple of weeks to get done because he had some stuff going on and also needed to order some files for the checkering job. Ok no problem it was a safe queen anyway so no big deal on the wait. Anyway multiple weeks go by and gun still isn't complete even after he said it would be done, still no big deal. Well now it's august and the gun still isn't complete and no communication from him, this is how patient we were. Now the epic flood comes around. After multiple attempts to contact him with no response after leaving voicemails and texts ( this was a good bit after the incident because I knew he must have been dealing with his house and other things) I finally get in contact with him just to make sure the gun was ok and he explained how he got flooded out but the gun is ok. I tell him don't worry about finishing the gun I'll just come get it I understand he probably has his hands full. He says ok, well more time goes by and I am able to get in touch with him again to try to arrange to pick the gun up. Problem is every time I AM able to get him on the phone he always has a reason he can't meet. And this is after leaving texts and voicemails which haven't been returned before finally getting him on the phone. All I am trying to do is pick the gun up!!! Anyway just recently I had finally gotten back in touch with him to try to pick it up and now he had an excuse that someone passed in his family and he couldn't meet up. Keep in mind we have been trying to meet him at his residence to pick it up which would take all of 2 minutes to come outside and give us the pistol. So now he is saying that he is going to ship the pistol to me, which I don't understand because it would be harder to do that than to let me pick it up. So he said he would ship the gun out to me by Tuesday (2/14). Well today came and went with no response to my texts or voicemail. What should I do from here? Call police and file the gun as stolen? Take legal action? Help!!
    Tl;dr dropped a 1911 off to get work done in June, work never completed and now gunsmith will still not return gun after countless times of trying to meet up to pick it up

    I agree with one thing in your above post. You DO need help.

    I was actually sympathetic to your post, until I read Big Jake's reply. Working for a LGS myself, part time, I know the rules. If Jake allowed your sister to pick up the firearm, she would have to fill out a form 4473, and Jake would have to initiate a NICS background check. It's the law. I don't blame him for not wanting to do this, at least not without compensation.

    I think your post borders on slanderous, having heard Jake's side of the story.
     

    981GT4

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    Why not ship it back to him? Not taking sides here but you do not need an FFL to ship a firearm back to the owners residential home, if the fire arm was being worked on by a gunsmith or manufacturer. I had my CZ scorpion SBR shipped back to be from SC for cerekote job.
     

    bigjakewelch

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    Mar 19, 2010
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    I agree with one thing in your above post. You DO need help.

    I was actually sympathetic to your post, until I read Big Jake's reply. Working for a LGS myself, part time, I know the rules. If Jake allowed your sister to pick up the firearm, she would have to fill out a form 4473, and Jake would have to initiate a NICS background check. It's the law. I don't blame him for not wanting to do this, at least not without compensation.

    I think your post borders on slanderous, having heard Jake's side of the story.

    I'm not looking for compensation. I want this dude to get his gun back. Because our schedules don't work with one another, I'm offering to send him the firearm thru a FFL in his area (at my cost)All I need is a point of contact and a valid license holder to send me a copy of their FFL.


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    bigjakewelch

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    Why not ship it back to him? Not taking sides here but you do not need an FFL to ship a firearm back to the owners residential home, if the fire arm was being worked on by a gunsmith or manufacturer. I had my CZ scorpion SBR shipped back to be from SC for cerekote job.

    This works if the firearm has been shipped to me. It was dropped off at the location. To be honest after this I don't trust that it would be handled correctly anyway. I'd much rather have it go thru a FFL to cover my business. He is talking about getting the police involved because his schedule didn't line up with mine. There's no telling where this could go if it isn't dealt with in a manner that is above all scrutiny.


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    noob

    enthusiast
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    Mar 18, 2008
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    I work your standard business hours M-F so I know how hard it can be to line up my schedule with my FFL's. But I'm thankful he makes an exception and sees me SUPER early in the morning and sometimes on weekends (he doesn't work weekends normally). The windows are VERY tight, and I'm just thankful he will carve out a window since he's the only reasonably priced FFL I can make it to without having to take off of work.

    Knowing this, If you schedule is anything like mine, you have to make your schedule work, not necessarily theres.

    I know I'm not keeping my pharmacy open later than it has to be, nor open it either. I've done it before and people will expect it every time, and be perpetually late.
     

    sevenpt62

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    Oct 14, 2008
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    hammond, la
    Ok i am going to try to handle your arguments one at a time. First both guns were in fact dropped off at the same time in June. I dropped my brother in law's gun off at the same time i brought mine back after i picked it up from you working on it and it didn't fire. At that time you had no problem with me dropping off someone else's gun. You knew the whole time that it was his. Here are the texts to prove it. You posted some, so im sure you have these also.



    you can see in the texts where i say i am dropping off the guns plural. Next i never said that you ever told me I couldn't pick up the gun. The problem is that you have poor communication with your customers. I really cant believe that you are going to say that you always maintained constant communication with us. I see you posted the texts but you didn't mention how we were unable to get in contact with you for more than a month after the flooding in august after leaving many voicemails and calls. It was not in the beginning of september as you stated. When I finally got ahold of you on the phone i offered my apologies for you getting flooded out and said I knew you have way more important things going on then doing gun work so I would just try to make arrangements for one of us to pick up the pistol and that i could return it later when you were back up and going. As a business owner the least you could have done is just drop a line to let us know that the gun was ok.

    I wasn't going to ask you to stop what you were doing and make me your first priority. Going through katrina i can understand how something like that can be but at least a quick call would have sufficed. This whole issue could have been solved with better communication on your end. Also since then every time i AM able to get you on the phone and try to arrange to pick the gun up you are never available to meet up. Knowing that we live an hour away and have jobs where we work shift work the least you could have done is been a little more accommodating for us.

    After I had spoke with you later on i told you that i was giving him your number so that he could communicate with you and that y'all could arrange a date/time to meet up. Later he comes to me telling me that he was unable to get ahold of you after calling, leaving voicemails and texts. So the last time we spoke i told you what was going on and how my sister was going to attempt to pick up the pistol because we are having a hard time getting out there. You were unavailable to meet with her then because you weren't going to be home until late in the evening.

    You never said anything about not being able to give her the firearm as per your "policy". Then again after trying to get ahold of you i finally do and explain how my brother in law had been unsuccessful with getting into contact with you ( which you did not refute) and how he was getting anxious about getting the gun back. I also said how he was going to be passing through the area on sunday and if there was anyway you could please make time to allow him to pick up the firearm. You explained that you had a death in the family which i can understand and you have my condolences for that, but at the same time all he wanted to do was pass by and pick up the firearm since at least this time you were going to be there.

    We were not asking for you to spend the day with us, to walk outside and give us the gun would not have taken but 5 minutes or less. Am i being unreasonable for that? You run a business and I would expect that you should know to try to take care of your customers. So, after all of this if you were in my shoes would you not suspect that something funny might be going on? After all of the unanswered calls and voicemails that weren't returned? When i am able to get you on the phone you can never accommodate him or myself?? Yea i did think something about that was strange, no other business i have ever dealt with has ever given me the run around and lack of communication that i had with you. We never forgot about the gun, nobody forgets about a gun that they spend over a thousand dollars on. You might have thought that but those months that you said i forgot about it i was actually calling you and leaving voicemails which were not returned.

    There were no times that we had agreed to meet up that I didn't show. So i just wanted people to hear the whole truth. I find it hilarious after how hard you are to get in contact with, you see this post and respond within hours. If only you were that quick to respond to calls we might not be in this situation. So please ship the gun to me as you said you would to our closest ffl St bernard indoor shooting center.

    Please ship it in his name as like i said the gun isn't mine. Now he has to pay a transfer on a firearm that he already owns. I am messaging you now with his name, info, and the ffl so that you can get it shipped to him. I will post a follow up after we receive the gun to let everyone know the situation has been resolved.
     

    AustinBR

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    Ok i am going to try to handle your arguments one at a time. First both guns were in fact dropped off at the same time in June. I dropped my brother in law's gun off at the same time i brought mine back after i picked it up from you working on it and it didn't fire. At that time you had no problem with me dropping off someone else's gun. You knew the whole time that it was his. Here are the texts to prove it. You posted some, so im sure you have these also.



    you can see in the texts where i say i am dropping off the guns plural. Next i never said that you ever told me I couldn't pick up the gun. The problem is that you have poor communication with your customers. I really cant believe that you are going to say that you always maintained constant communication with us. I see you posted the texts but you didn't mention how we were unable to get in contact with you for more than a month after the flooding in august after leaving many voicemails and calls. It was not in the beginning of september as you stated. When I finally got ahold of you on the phone i offered my apologies for you getting flooded out and said I knew you have way more important things going on then doing gun work so I would just try to make arrangements for one of us to pick up the pistol and that i could return it later when you were back up and going. As a business owner the least you could have done is just drop a line to let us know that the gun was ok.

    I wasn't going to ask you to stop what you were doing and make me your first priority. Going through katrina i can understand how something like that can be but at least a quick call would have sufficed. This whole issue could have been solved with better communication on your end. Also since then every time i AM able to get you on the phone and try to arrange to pick the gun up you are never available to meet up. Knowing that we live an hour away and have jobs where we work shift work the least you could have done is been a little more accommodating for us.

    After I had spoke with you later on i told you that i was giving him your number so that he could communicate with you and that y'all could arrange a date/time to meet up. Later he comes to me telling me that he was unable to get ahold of you after calling, leaving voicemails and texts. So the last time we spoke i told you what was going on and how my sister was going to attempt to pick up the pistol because we are having a hard time getting out there. You were unavailable to meet with her then because you weren't going to be home until late in the evening.

    You never said anything about not being able to give her the firearm as per your "policy". Then again after trying to get ahold of you i finally do and explain how my brother in law had been unsuccessful with getting into contact with you ( which you did not refute) and how he was getting anxious about getting the gun back. I also said how he was going to be passing through the area on sunday and if there was anyway you could please make time to allow him to pick up the firearm. You explained that you had a death in the family which i can understand and you have my condolences for that, but at the same time all he wanted to do was pass by and pick up the firearm since at least this time you were going to be there.

    We were not asking for you to spend the day with us, to walk outside and give us the gun would not have taken but 5 minutes or less. Am i being unreasonable for that? You run a business and I would expect that you should know to try to take care of your customers. So, after all of this if you were in my shoes would you not suspect that something funny might be going on? After all of the unanswered calls and voicemails that weren't returned? When i am able to get you on the phone you can never accommodate him or myself?? Yea i did think something about that was strange, no other business i have ever dealt with has ever given me the run around and lack of communication that i had with you. We never forgot about the gun, nobody forgets about a gun that they spend over a thousand dollars on. You might have thought that but those months that you said i forgot about it i was actually calling you and leaving voicemails which were not returned.

    There were no times that we had agreed to meet up that I didn't show. So i just wanted people to hear the whole truth. I find it hilarious after how hard you are to get in contact with, you see this post and respond within hours. If only you were that quick to respond to calls we might not be in this situation. So please ship the gun to me as you said you would to our closest ffl St bernard indoor shooting center.

    Please ship it in his name as like i said the gun isn't mine. Now he has to pay a transfer on a firearm that he already owns. I am messaging you now with his name, info, and the ffl so that you can get it shipped to him. I will post a follow up after we receive the gun to let everyone know the situation has been resolved.

    I edited your post and added spacing and periods. The wall of text hurt my insides. Good luck with your situation.
     

    kingfhb

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    sevenpt62

    This sounds like you may need to familiarize yourself with the law and the requirements/restriction/guidelines of the ATF at they pertain to this situation. I will not go into giving legal advice, but a gunsmith (or anyone possessing a firearm in excess of 24 hours) fall under guidelines to track, maintain, store those firearms. On that same note, they also have requirements they need to meet with regards to turning a firearm over to another person (the owner or not) from their custody.

    You can't be mad at the guy for following the letter of the law... and ignorance of the law isn't a defense in any circumstance. It isn't HIS responsibility to notify or school you on the law... that falls on you. He does have the burden of upholding it though or lose his FFL.

    I will agree with you on the communication side... while he did have personal things going on, he does still provide a service and communication is key. With that being said, if he doesn't provide a contract or put the terms down on paper... you pretty much don't have anything to say he "agreed" to or to hold him to.

    Just my opinion... I actually didn't start a specific business because of all the guidelines and requirements that the federal government has with regards to firearms.
     
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    bigjakewelch

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    I just received your FFL's information. I can't ship it in his name. It is on my books with you dropping it off, so as far as the ATF is concerned, you are the owner.
    You may have a text using a plural noun, but I have a bound book with the date time and a copy of your lic# from when the firearm was dropped off. I have to keep these records for the ATF. This is part of the way that the FFL works. As to taking 5mins to walk outside. That wouldn't have been a problem if I was there but I wasn't. I was at my in laws helping take care of things for a funeral. Also it wouldn't have taken 5 mins, I would have had to run a 4473 on your brother for him to pick it up.

    So the question is , do you want me to ship it to the FFL in your name or do you want to make an appointment to pick it up?


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