Black Powder Cartridge loading particularly 45-70

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  • TWaggenspack

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    Mar 15, 2010
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    Baton Rouge, La.
    After reloading smokeless for 35+ years and casting for 30+, plus muzzle loading for 30+ I am moving into black powder cartridge loading. As most of you loading BPCR know, there is a lot or reading to do and a lot of opinions on line. There are several experts and books available on the subject, so I am not trying to dispute their writings. I am far from being in their league, but I still see a lot of discussion on technique and procedure. Some things are written in stone and should not be altered, but there is still a lot of questions out there. Some may be opinions, others are scientific fact. I would just like to see a discussion from users.

    Some of the topics I would like to post on and ask opinions on are equipment (black vs smokeless, what do you need to purchase vs what can be reused from smokeless), over powder wads and fillers, bullets (jacketed, cast GC, cast plain base), cleaning, pet load discussion (safety first...), duplex loads, what is required for competition (ex. plain base cast bullets only, etc.), what do you need to buy to get started, what can you make, what is not absolutely necessary to reload BPCR, etc.

    I'll start out with over powder wads. Veggie wads seem to be the choice of many, some make their own from milk cartons or cardboard. This seams to be a matter of preference and more importantly what the rifle prefers. Is it necessary to add filler if the case is not full after the wad? Wad on top of filler or on bottom? Do some bullets not need a wad? What are the dangers of not using a wad, or filling the case?

    Yes, I know the answer to some of these, but like I stated before, I am trying to get a discussion going to assist others.


    FYI, I shoot 45-70 in a Thompson and a Sharps.
     

    TWaggenspack

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    Mar 15, 2010
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    Baton Rouge, La.
    Well, not much discussion... Most BP shooters agree that black powder needs a wad due to it being an explosive vs a propellant. A black powder case must be filled up to the base of the projectile, unlike smokeless powder. Many chambers have been bulged using black powder with an air space. It also protects the base of a plain base bullet when being fired. Opinions?
     

    dougstump

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    Nov 22, 2010
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    I've loaded real black powder and substitute loads in .38-55 (sold the rifle), .43 Mauser (sold it too), .45-70 (original Model 1884 Trapdoor), and 577-450 Martini Henry. Unfortunately, I'm up in the Shreveport area so we can't discuss it over a cup of coffee!

    Also have a golf ball cannon on order, but it's not here yet. So I still have some time to figure out a cover story for the wife....

    I've use a cotton ball for an over powder wad, haven't had a problem. I bought some powder that you're supposed to fill the case up with (sorry, don't remember the name), when you seat the bullet it compresses. Damn near blew up the 577-450 with it. Threw the rest of it in the trash.

    For the .45-70 I use soft cast 405 grain that are made to the original specification. The 577-450 gets fed 500 grain from a Lee mold and paper patched on top of 70 grains of 777.
     

    troy_mclure

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    Mar 13, 2010
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    i did some cas shoots back in washington(mqandatory "low power" due to shooting close steel), corn meal was a very popular filler for all the .45colt guys. i just double stacked fibre wads in my new model army reprpo(15gr goex. double thick wad so seat ball at cyl flush).
    for my rifle(ruger #1 .45/70) i used 40gr goex topped cotton balls.
     

    sportsbud

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    Jan 16, 2013
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    NOLA
    Seems like a good place to ask the question, not long ago got a Model 1888 Cadet Trapdoor in 45-70 and its in great shape... Modern ammo for it? Was told to stick to Cowboy action loads at 405 grains at 900 fps.... HSM makes a decently priced round in that spec... Shouldn't blow it up... hopefully... One of these days I'll start reloading for this rifle for sure...
     

    sportsbud

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    Jan 16, 2013
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    NOLA
    You can buy a lee hand press in .45/70 for $30. And load it up for designated load, 70gr bp.

    I will be loading for it for sure, but I'm going to shy away from BP... #1 storage of BP is far more hazardous than Smokeless.... And #2 I really hate the fouling it makes. So I'll just use a Smokeless equivlant... Right now I have several boxes of cowboy loads at 405 grain @950fps... Far below the 1300fps original loading....
     

    troy_mclure

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    Mar 13, 2010
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    ive found goex and other gunpowders much less fouling and corrosive than pyrodex, tripple seven, and buckhorn. you just have to have good compression of the powder to get a complete burn.
     

    dougstump

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    Nov 22, 2010
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    These are some good books I have acquired on feeding black powder rifles:

    Loading the Black Powder Rifle Cartridge by Paul A. Matthews
    The Single Shot Military RIfle Handbook by Croft Barker
    SPG Lubricants BP Cartridge Reloading Primer by Mike Venturino and Steve Garbe

    Very helpful if you want to paper patch, it's fun learning what our Grandfathers took for granted. Also helps a lot if you need a slightly larger bullet:
    Loading and Shooting Paper Patched Bullets, A Beginner's Guide by Randolph S. Wright

    Virtually mandatory reading for the Trapdoor:
    Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine by J.S. and Pat Wolf
    Note: I had a very nice telephone conversation with Mr. Wolf shortly before his passing, one hell of a nice man. His wife and son are continuing his legacy. His book turned my Model 1884 Trapdoor from a "minute of backstop" at 100 yards to knocking down the steel animals at 400 yards. Of course, at this range it's a danger to low flying aircraft!
     
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