Palo Alto rifle matches!?

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  • Blaize

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    Hello all!

    I'm looking to get started in some long gun matches here soon out at Palo Alto, and could sure use some guidance from you seasoned gentlemen out there. This may be a little long winded post so I apologize in advance and please bare with me.

    First a little back ground about me I guess. I currently shoot pistol matches out at Nicks in reserve. It's a great range with some very good shooters and just all around guys out there, however the season is winding down next month and I'll be looking to do some different kind of shooting!

    I see posts about the matches at Palo, and am unsure where to start. The F class looks most attractive to me, specifically TR class, as I don't have a crazy custom rig (yet), and quite frankly I know I have alot to learn before jumping into the deep end!

    With that being said, I have questions regarding equipment. I have a few bolt action 700s in 308, however reading the rules for F TR it's alot to comprehend. As I understand it, muzzle brakes aren't allowed is this correct? The reason I ask is because I have a very nice custom rifle built on a factory 700 action that's been gone through but has a brake installed. Which leads to my next question, is this rifle legal to use if I just remove the brake and run a thread protector? I ask because I thought I read the chamber is the rifle has to be unmodified? If it's blueprinted and trued will this be legal for that class?

    The next question is about optics. I think the max allowable magnification is 25x. Is this a necessity, or will I be handicapped with say a nightforce SHV 4-14x56, which is what I have now. I am currently looking for another optic so any recommendations are welcome.

    Again I apologize for the long post, I am eager to get out there and shoot!
     

    DH Vidrine

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    I will try to answer your questions. There are two branches of NRA High-power Rifle competition.

    The first is conventional high-power rifle with the service rifle or match rifle.
    Service Rifle: M1, M14, or M16A2, or the civilian versions such as M1A, and AR-15. The rifle must have the outward appearance of the US Army issued rifle and must have a minimum 4 ½ lb. trigger pull. Internal modifications are allowed. The rifle must be used with the leather of web military sling. 4.5X scopes are now allowed.
    Match Rifle: almost anything goes. Scope or iron sights are allowed. The match rifle must be reloaded during rapid fire as the service rifle.
    National Match Course of fire (also known as across the course) is: 10 shots slow fire standing at 200 yd. in 10 min., 10 shots rapid fire with a re-load at 200 yd. in sitting position 10 60 sec., 10 shots rapid fire at 300 yd. in the prone position in 70 sec. with a re-load, and 20 shots slow fire prone at 600 yd. in twenty min. Two sighting shots are allowed in each position before record fire.

    The second is F-Class.
    All firing is slow fire prone with artificial support. Mid-Range Prone course of fire is three strings of 20 shots slow fire prone at 600 yd. in twenty min with sighting shots. F-Class is divided into two groups, F-Class Open, and F-TR. Open; any caliber, any front support, any sight, and higher weight limit. F-TR: any sight, caliber 308 or 223 only, bi-pod only front support, and lower weight limit.
    Listed below is the links to the NRA rule books.

    I suggest that you do not purchase any equipment until you have attended a few matches and have become familiar with the program. Shoot what you have. We each started just like you. The lowest cost entry is service rifle with iron sights. The Louisiana Shooting Association sponsors the Louisiana high power junior team. Rifles and other equipment may be borrowed at the matches for a $10 fee. Provide your own ammo. Membership in the Louisiana Shooting Association is $10 per year. Service rifles are also fired at the mid-range prone match along with the F-Class shooters. The next high power rifle match is at the Gonzales Sherriff’s range on August 27. All shooting at this match is at 200 yd. The next 600 yd. mid-range prone match will be at Palo Alto on September 2. I hope you can join us. Let me know if you have any other questions.

    http://compete.nra.org/
    http://compete.nra.org/official-nra-rule-books.aspx
    https://louisianashooting.com/
     

    Blaize

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    Mr Vidrine, thank you so much for your post! I am also interested in service rifle matches as well, I have a setup for it already and am somewhat familiar with the course of fire. It is similar to what we used for qualification in the Marine Corps. I will probably try to make it to the gonzales match! I only have access to a 100 yard range for a zero, and it's been so long since I qualified with irons I couldn't remember the come ups for them. Would it be ok to show up with a 100 yard zero, or 25? Also any other equipment needed besides rifle, ammo, hearing and she protection?

    Again, thank you so much for the information !
     

    peterf225

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    F-TR is limited to 308 win and 223 rem chamberings. They can not be an Ackley improved chamber. No muzzle breaks allowed but you could run your rifle with a thread protector. Can run higher power scopes.

    Then there is the FPR match. Can run muzzle brakes, scope power limited to 25x, must use a folding leg commercially available bipod, rounds must be magazine fed, and any caliber .35 and smaller. More of a fun match, not a NRA registered match. Contact Mickey on the forum and he can help you out.
     

    Fallout

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    Ditto on what peterf225 said about F class. I've found the FPR matches to be the best place for a new shooter to start for two reasons:
    1. While FPR has rules, it isn't an NRA sanctioned match so the equipment rules are very flexible, especially for a shooter getting into the sport. Show up with a rifle capable of shooting 600 yards (muzzle brakes are allowed, btw), a scope capable of seeing a 3" bullseye from that far away (25x works well, 14x can be a handicap in F class but is a decent starting point), a bipod, a back bag, 66 rounds of decent ammo, eyes/ears, and a desire to learn and you can shoot. The only thing you're giving up by not following the equipment rules is not being able to win a medal in FPR.
    2. With it being informal, coaching is allowed while shooting. If you're paired with an experienced shooter they can teach you a lot! Even if you aren't paired with one there are plenty of chances to meet people and pick up tips.

    It's ok to show up with a 100 yard zero provided you know the ballistics of the ammo you're shooting and have a scope that can come up that far (~14 MOA for a 308 at 600 yards for a 100 yard zero)

    Mr. Vidrine is a great source on the service rifle front...he's one of those experienced shooters you can learn a lot from. Hope to see you out there!
     
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    Blaize

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    Awesome, thanks Peter. Ideally I would like to setup one of my rifles to be able to use it for both classes. I figure the more trigger time the better on the same rifle. I've got some hand loads that shoot decent at 100 yards, but haven't gotten the chance to stretch them out and really see how they act at the 600 yard line. I don't mind investing in some quality equipment as I plan on doing it for a while, I just wanted to make sure I bought things I could get the most use out of.
     

    mickey

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    For f class unscrew your brake and single load your 308. We shoot first Saturday of the month. Bare threads or thread protector does not matter
    NRA matches frown on muzzle brakes.
    No scope power max for f class matches. Most of us shoot 30-55x during the match. Whatever the mirage allows us to use.
    Bipod and rifle combined has to stay under 18.18#. We shoot with a bipod and rear bag.
    As for as the action an chamber, it just has to be a 308. There are a lot of guys that shoot heavily modified freebore on the 308 chambers. That is legal. Just as Peter stated above, no ackley improved cartridges that change shoulder angles or the parent case length. Does not matter if your action has been trued.

    FPR matches at Palo are 2nd Saturday of the month. Muzzle brakes and legal cans are allowed. For FPR we limit magnification on the scope to 25x. It's ok to have more magnification capability on your scope, just keep it cut back to 25x.
    For FPR you must feed from a mag. Internal or external does not matter. As for caliber, anything under .35 cal is good to go.

    Pm me if you have any more questions I can help you with
     

    Blaize

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    Fallout,

    That does sound like an ideal place to start. My only experience shooting these distances were a few years ago, and I know I have alot to learn! I think I have most everything go get started so I'll try to make the next FPR match! Thanks for all of the info guys!
     

    DH Vidrine

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    Blaize, There is plenty of gear to borrow or share at HPR matches. You can pair up with another shooter and share the same mat and spotting scope. You will need an empty chamber indicator. This is a cheap, yellow plastic flag to indicate that your rifle is safe and unloaded. If you do not have we will get you one. Bring two magazines. A shooting coat helps. You can start by wearing a sweat shirt under a Carhart type work coat. That is what I started with until I got a specialized shooting coat later. You will need a sling. Get a $15 cotton web sling. Do not get the nylon sling. It will slip down your arm. The cotton one will hold tight. A 100 yd. zero will be fine. We will get you on target. There is plenty of HPR information on the Civilian Marksmanship Program web site and US Rifle Teams forum.

    http://thecmp.org/
    http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/
     

    mickey

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    For a 308, I would recommend 175gr smk's for shooting 600y. 168's will work just don't do quite as well.
    Varget works well with them if you are reloading. If you are not reloading, I would strongly recommend getting into it.
    155.5gr bergers do well, but they need to be pushed pretty hard to keep up.
    Make sure you have 16-16.5moa of elevation left in your scope to come up from your 100y zero.
    Your 14x scope will work. You should have 100moa of elevation adjustment in it
     
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    Blaize

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    DH_Vidrine

    I have all of those items so that sounds good! I should be able to make the next service rifle match.

    Mickey,

    That's exactly what I'm using. Loading some 175 SMKs over 43.5 grains of varget the rifle seems to like. I have no idea how fast it's going though since I don't have access to a chrono. I should have enough elevation left, as I'm mounted on a 20 MOA rail.

    Thanks for all of the info guys, I'm pretty pumped to shoot some long guns at distance again. Hopefully I can get some of my friends to come and give it try also.
     

    mickey

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    DH_Vidrine

    I have all of those items so that sounds good! I should be able to make the next service rifle match.

    Mickey,

    That's exactly what I'm using. Loading some 175 SMKs over 43.5 grains of varget the rifle seems to like. I have no idea how fast it's going though since I don't have access to a chrono. I should have enough elevation left, as I'm mounted on a 20 MOA rail.

    Thanks for all of the info guys, I'm pretty pumped to shoot some long guns at distance again. Hopefully I can get some of my friends to come and give it try also.

    I've found 43.3 to 43.6gr of varget to be a good spot for 175's.
    Probably 2750-2770 fps if you are in the 24" to 26" barrel length range.
     

    DH Vidrine

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    Sportsbud, the Swiss K31 can be used at the 200 yd. Gonzales match on August 27. You will need two magazines or two charging clips for rapid fire. All vintage military rifles are welcome. There are several shooters that regularly shoot their M1, M1903A3, and Lee-Enfields at this match. Listed below are some more high power rifle web sites with very good equipment and marksmanship information.

    http://www.sw-hearing.com/konrad/index.html
    http://jarheadtop.com/
    http://www.gswagner.com/matches/highpower/highpower.html
     

    sportsbud

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    Sportsbud, the Swiss K31 can be used at the 200 yd. Gonzales match on August 27. You will need two magazines or two charging clips for rapid fire. All vintage military rifles are welcome. There are several shooters that regularly shoot their M1, M1903A3, and Lee-Enfields at this match. Listed below are some more high power rifle web sites with very good equipment and marksmanship information.

    http://www.sw-hearing.com/konrad/index.html
    http://jarheadtop.com/
    http://www.gswagner.com/matches/highpower/highpower.html

    Hmm where do I see about signing up for this?
     

    DH Vidrine

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    This match is located at the Ascension Parrish Sherriff’s range in Gonzales across the street from the Lamar-Dixon Center on Saint Landry Ave.
    Address: Rifle Range Rd., Gonzales, LA 70737
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ascension-Parish-Sheriffs-Range/175925672434248

    Match registration and target setup starts at 7AM. Shooting starts at 9AM. Entry fee is $12 members, $15 non-members, and $5 for juniors.
     

    Blaize

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    I should be there also, going to finish some rounds tonight and get a zero tomorrow hopefully
     
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