Nurse In Utah Gets Arrested For Doing Her Job

krotsman · Sep 1, 2017

Firearmfanatic said:
Okay, I see where you are going with this but, is the subject that is in question for the blood draw an employee of the agency that also is the same as offending officer is? Regardless if yes or no, the officer insisting for the blood draw can not legally demand a blood draw on said subject unless the subject is under arrest, or the requesting officer or his department, for the blood draw holds a court order stating that a blood draw must be performed on said subject.

I am in total agreement with you that he legally cannot, from the facts we are seeing in the article, but he clearly thinks he can! Other than his own arrogance, I was just trying to provide another motivation that may be driving his insistence on drawing the guy's blood. Just playing devil's advocate for Payne's brain. (Too bad he isn't a high ranking officer, like a Captain, or a LT. Colonel, or a ....) :mamoru:

Kraut · Sep 1, 2017

Disclaimer: I watched a brief portion of video from a news story earlier, not the full version, so this comment is not in relation to a specific action or behavior on video, just in relation to the incident in general.

One of the dumbest details of this whole thing is that the ER is going to have blood results on file regardless, so there is absolutely no question of immediacy here, warrants/subpoenas can handle that later. Someone had his blinders on and let his buttons get pushed. It's a phenomenon I've witnessed before, someone challenges where you think you have the last word and suddenly, "Sergeant Swollen-Nuts" appears where a moment ago Officer Jekyll was standing.

Saintsfan6 · Sep 1, 2017

Kraut said:
Disclaimer: I watched a brief portion of video from a news story earlier, not the full version, so this comment is not in relation to a specific action or behavior on video, just in relation to the incident in general.

One of the dumbest details of this whole thing is that the ER is going to have blood results on file regardless, so there is absolutely no question of immediacy here, warrants/subpoenas can handle that later. Someone had his blinders on and let his buttons get pushed. It's a phenomenon I've witnessed before, someone challenges where you think you have the last word and suddenly, "Sergeant Swollen-Nuts" appears where a moment ago Officer Jekyll was standing.

Well put. Especially the quotations part... that was great

Firearmfanatic · Sep 1, 2017

krotsman said:
I am in total agreement with you that he legally cannot, from the facts we are seeing in the article, but he clearly thinks he can! Other than his own arrogance, I was just trying to provide another motivation that may be driving his insistence on drawing the guy's blood. Just playing devil's advocate for Payne's brain. (Too bad he isn't a high ranking officer, like a Captain, or a LT. Colonel, or a ....)

I hear you and no attack against you personally! Seems to me like the Payne is trying to have a peeing contest with the workers of the hospital and assert his believed authority on the workers.

krotsman · Sep 1, 2017

Firearmfanatic said:
I hear you and no attack against you personally! Seems to me like the Payne is trying to have a peeing contest with the workers of the hospital and assert his believed authority on the workers.

I didn't think you were. My exclamation point was emphasis on what the cop thought, not yelling at you.

Coastie Paul · Sep 1, 2017

According to the news I just saw, she was held for 20 minutes, released, no charges filed. He is suspended and under internal investigation. One observation is that even if an officer is wrong (or believed to be), one should not resist. The mayor made a statement and said that she called the nurse and offered an apology.

cyclone1970 · Sep 1, 2017

The link FirearmFanatic provides at the beginning of this topic is the most complete one I have viewed. A small edited portion of the video was shown on NBC news tonight and does not show the complete picture. One must see the beginning portion (that was not shown) where the nurse was just trying to do whatever the law dictated -- she is under as much pressure, if not more, to be on firm legal ground as the police are in a situation like this. She was not being obstructive in any manner, what so ever at that point! If she had not been on the correct legal footing she would be looking for another job now. Why isn't that policeman looking for a Wal Mart greeters job now?

cyclone1970 · Sep 1, 2017

cyclone1970 · Sep 1, 2017

sandman7925 · Sep 1, 2017

krotsman said:
Absolutely. No, I don't think it would hold up under legal implied consent definition, but Payne's frame of mind might have been "well, he consented to department policies as terms of his employment, so if he was awake he would consent to a blood draw". Although, even then, he would have the choice, were he conscious, to refuse the blood draw, but he would probably be terminated from the agency.

Is the patient police? I read he was a truck driver that was hit. Seems like your saying he was a cop?

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krotsman · Sep 1, 2017

sandman7925 said:
Is the patient police? I read he was a truck driver that was hit. Seems like your saying he was a cop?

I read that he was either a full-time LEO who drove a truck part-time or a full-time truck driver and a part-time LEO. I don't remember which.

Saintsfan6 · Sep 1, 2017

krotsman said:
I read that he was either a full-time LEO who drove a truck part-time or a full-time truck driver and a part-time LEO. I don't remember which.

Interesting. Regardless, the hospital staff has very specific guidelines to preserve patient's rights. Inocent RN should not have been treated the way she was, and I bet she is compensated appropriately. The real question is this, will the LEO that did this be punished accordingly? Or just placed on paid leave or retire with full pension?

Redd508 · Sep 1, 2017

krotsman said:
I read that he was either a full-time LEO who drove a truck part-time or a full-time truck driver and a part-time LEO. I don't remember which.

We may not get good info for a while until this is sorted. 2 or 3 of the articles i read said nothing about part time or full time leo. Just that he was not involved in the chase and was a victim of the collision caused by their suspect fleeing, who is reported to be dead in the crash.

machinedrummer · Sep 1, 2017

A nurse should have snuck up behind him like a ninja armed with 15cc of propofol loaded in a syringe and stuck it in his neck. Just like in the movies. I've seen it done and it seems to work. She will retire comfortably soon and he will go on and do whatever....

sandman7925 · Sep 1, 2017

Dam people are sue happy. She might just forgive and forget. All the post about her getting paid, that's not everyone's first instinct.

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3fifty7 · Sep 1, 2017

Seems in most cases these days the best course of action if wronged is to comply but express your disagreement because it will be filmed then sue the crap out of everyone for everything a lawyer can come up with.

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machinedrummer · Sep 1, 2017

If it was my wife it would be my second choice. If I express my first choice of action the thread would be shut down again.

Saintsfan6 · Sep 1, 2017

sandman7925 said:
Dam people are sue happy. She might just forgive and forget. All the post about her getting paid, that's not everyone's first instinct.

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Just basing my opinion on what is most likely to happen. I agree with machinedrummer, if it was my wife, sis, daughter, I would seek legal action. If not, why else would anything change? Officer goes on paid leave for a while and gets another LE position with a different department? That isn't enough to make a damn difference in anyone's actions. At least if a PD is losing money they will focus more on preventing outbursts like this one. "Hit them where it hurts"...

sandman7925 · Sep 1, 2017

Saintsfan6 said:
Just basing my opinion on what is most likely to happen. I agree with machinedrummer, if it was my wife, sis, daughter, I would seek legal action. If not, why else would anything change? Officer goes on paid leave for a while and gets another LE position with a different department? That isn't enough to make a damn difference in anyone's actions. At least if a PD is losing money they will focus more on preventing outbursts like this one. "Hit them where it hurts"...

It's still pending though I think. If it was me I would wait and let the department figure out what they want to do. If their final decision is to do nothing then think about getting a lawyer. But give them the chance to act on their own first.

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3fifty7 · Sep 1, 2017

sandman7925 said:
Dam people are sue happy. She might just forgive and forget. All the post about her getting paid, that's not everyone's first instinct.

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Her first instinct was to present the facts and reason. Didn't work out so well. Sometimes a lawsuit is the only thing some people/agencies understand.

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Nurse In Utah Gets Arrested For Doing Her Job

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