Seeking help with my first private gun sale process

Brawny · Nov 30, 2017

It seems pretty evident that getting a Verified name is the least, and the most, you should need. If something goes bad you can at least give authorities a name. It's not our job to hunt down ne'er-do-wells.

thperez1972 · Nov 30, 2017

Brawny said:
It seems pretty evident that getting a Verified name is the least, and the most, you should need. If something goes bad you can at least give authorities a name. It's not our job to hunt down ne'er-do-wells.

Wrong. The least you need to get is nothing. The least you need to do is verify they are a LA resident. You can do that by seeing a LA dl or id and matching up the picture. A number of people have said they will get a name and anything else is not necessary and you shouldn't get it. That's an arrogant statement. They are comfortable with getting only a name and nothing else for their transaction. But it's arrogant to tell everyone else they should be at the same comfort level.

thperez1972 · Nov 30, 2017

dantheman said:
Bill of Sale should not contain any PERSONAL information other than the names of the buyer and seller . PERIOD . I don't want a copy of your DL and you aren't getting mine . Flash me your CHP or your DL and I'll call it good . This doesn't have to be so complicated .

And if you don't want to do a BOS , I'll at least get your full name so I can record it in my " bound book " that I keep .

No, it should be pretty simple. If I'm selling a gun, I'm getting more than a name for a BOS. If I personally know you, then I already have more than your name, I have personal knowledge of you. If I don't know you, I'm getting a DL number. It's as simple as that. If those terms don't work for you, we can agree to not do business together. I won't try to force you to play by my rules. Don't try to force me to play by your rules. Because if the police knock on my door and tell me a murder weapon was traced back to one I bought, I'm not going to tell them to get a warrant. I will assist them however I can. And that means I'm giving them more than a name.

Brawny · Nov 30, 2017

thperez1972 said:
Wrong. The least you need to get is nothing. The least you need to do is verify they are a LA resident. You can do that by seeing a LA dl or id and matching up the picture. A number of people have said they will get a name and anything else is not necessary and you shouldn't get it. That's an arrogant statement. They are comfortable with getting only a name and nothing else for their transaction. But it's arrogant to tell everyone else they should be at the same comfort level.

I didn't mean to follow the law, I did mean for peace of mind that that's all one would need. I've never cared who I sold a gun to. I've sold several, some here, and couldn't give a name or even user name if I were tortured.

DBMJR1 · Nov 30, 2017

All but one of my private transactions has been initiated through this forum, or other forums.

If I get a knock on my door, I'll invite the nice officers in for a cup-o-joe, while I figure out to whom I sold that firearm.

I can do this from my phone, my work computer, my laptop, or my home computer. You can't say that with a bill of sale.

I do keep A&D books, with the name of the purchaser. I do not provide copies of my ID to private individuals, nor do I request them.

If you require a copy of my ID to sell me a firearm, please let me decline online. Save me the trouble of driving to meet you.

If you insist on a copy of my ID to purchase a firearm from me, I'll bring you to the shop where we'll do a Fm 4473 on you, the purchaser. Then you'll have your record.

bigtattoo79 · Nov 30, 2017

DBMJR1 said:
If you require a copy of my ID to sell me a firearm, please let me decline online. Save me the trouble of driving to meet you.

But they don’t tell you up front because they feel you will give in because you have now invested time in the deal!

thperez1972 · Nov 30, 2017

Brawny said:
I didn't mean to follow the law, I did mean for peace of mind that that's all one would need. I've never cared who I sold a gun to. I've sold several, some here, and couldn't give a name or even user name if I were tortured.

Based on some of the replies, no, a name is not all you need for peace of mind. Some people require more information than others. As stated, I won't sell to someone without a DL number on the BOS. That's the line for my peace of mind. That's my terms. Someone can either agree to my terms or they can find another seller. I'm fine with losing a sale because of that.

DBMJR1 said:
All but one of my private transactions has been initiated through this forum, or other forums.

If I get a knock on my door, I'll invite the nice officers in for a cup-o-joe, while I figure out to whom I sold that firearm.

I can do this from my phone, my work computer, my laptop, or my home computer. You can't say that with a bill of sale.

I do keep A&D books, with the name of the purchaser. I do not provide copies of my ID to private individuals, nor do I request them.

If you require a copy of my ID to sell me a firearm, please let me decline online. Save me the trouble of driving to meet you.

If you insist on a copy of my ID to purchase a firearm from me, I'll bring you to the shop where we'll do a Fm 4473 on you, the purchaser. Then you'll have your record.

If the DL number is on the bill of sale, I sure can say with the BOS who I sold it to. And because I have certain legal documents scanned and saved to the cloud, I can not only say who I sold it to, I can send them the buyer's signature from any device that can access the internet. In addition, I have a physical sheet of paper with your DL number and your signature the police can bring to you and ask about the weapon you bought from me. You don't have that with an online search. The physical sheet of paper with your DL number and your signature makes it so much harder for you to turn it into a he said/she said scenario if you choose to deny buying the weapon.

And you can choose to not provide your ID to a private individual. But if you want him to respect your choice, you must respect his choice to not sell the weapon without seeing the ID. And if it's me, I'm more than happy to do what I did when I sold a pistol to my ex-wife. We went to a gun store and she filled out a form 4473. We also completed a BOS. Unlike some people here, I'm not scared of a form 4473. I'm not scared of someone I sell to knowing who they're buying from. I'm fine with giving the buyer peace of mind.

But to clarify, I wouldn't want a copy of your DL. I would write down your DL number. And as far as I'm concerned, you could cover up the address. My peace of mind is satisfied if I can match you to the picture on the DL, record the DL number, and match the signature on the BOS to the signature on the DL.

thperez1972 · Nov 30, 2017

bigtattoo79 said:
But they don’t tell you up front because they feel you will give in because you have now invested time in the deal!

They don't tell you for the same reason you fail to ask. You both believe the other would be comfortable with the terms you are comfortable with.

Brawny · Nov 30, 2017

thperez1972 said:
Based on some of the replies, no, a name is not all you need for peace of mind. Some people require more information than others. As stated, I won't sell to someone without a DL number on the BOS. That's the line for my peace of mind. That's my terms. Someone can either agree to my terms or they can find another seller. I'm fine with losing a sale because of that.

If the DL number is on the bill of sale, I sure can say with the BOS who I sold it to. And because I have certain legal documents scanned and saved to the cloud, I can not only say who I sold it to, I can send them the buyer's signature from any device that can access the internet. In addition, I have a physical sheet of paper with your DL number and your signature the police can bring to you and ask about the weapon you bought from me. You don't have that with an online search. The physical sheet of paper with your DL number and your signature makes it so much harder for you to turn it into a he said/she said scenario if you choose to deny buying the weapon.

And you can choose to not provide your ID to a private individual. But if you want him to respect your choice, you must respect his choice to not sell the weapon without seeing the ID. And if it's me, I'm more than happy to do what I did when I sold a pistol to my ex-wife. We went to a gun store and she filled out a form 4473. We also completed a BOS. Unlike some people here, I'm not scared of a form 4473. I'm not scared of someone I sell to knowing who they're buying from. I'm fine with giving the buyer peace of mind.

But to clarify, I wouldn't want a copy of your DL. I would write down your DL number. And as far as I'm concerned, you could cover up the address. My peace of mind is satisfied if I can match you to the picture on the DL, record the DL number, and match the signature on the BOS to the signature on the DL.

I'm just glad none of that is legally necessary now. No doubt it will be in the near future.

bigtattoo79 · Nov 30, 2017

thperez1972 said:
Based on some of the replies, no, a name is not all you need for peace of mind. Some people require more information than others. As stated, I won't sell to someone without a DL number on the BOS. That's the line for my peace of mind. That's my terms. Someone can either agree to my terms or they can find another seller. I'm fine with losing a sale because of that.

If the DL number is on the bill of sale, I sure can say with the BOS who I sold it to. And because I have certain legal documents scanned and saved to the cloud, I can not only say who I sold it to, I can send them the buyer's signature from any device that can access the internet. In addition, I have a physical sheet of paper with your DL number and your signature the police can bring to you and ask about the weapon you bought from me. You don't have that with an online search. The physical sheet of paper with your DL number and your signature makes it so much harder for you to turn it into a he said/she said scenario if you choose to deny buying the weapon.

And you can choose to not provide your ID to a private individual. But if you want him to respect your choice, you must respect his choice to not sell the weapon without seeing the ID. And if it's me, I'm more than happy to do what I did when I sold a pistol to my ex-wife. We went to a gun store and she filled out a form 4473. We also completed a BOS. Unlike some people here, I'm not scared of a form 4473. I'm not scared of someone I sell to knowing who they're buying from. I'm fine with giving the buyer peace of mind.

But to clarify, I wouldn't want a copy of your DL. I would write down your DL number. And as far as I'm concerned, you could cover up the address. My peace of mind is satisfied if I can match you to the picture on the DL, record the DL number, and match the signature on the BOS to the signature on the DL.

And I’m not ok with a stranger storing my personal information online either.

Again each person must do what they feel most comfortable with. All that matters is that you are up front with the person *as it sounds you are*.

bigtattoo79 · Nov 30, 2017

thperez1972 said:
They don't tell you for the same reason you fail to ask. You both believe the other would be comfortable with the terms you are comfortable with.

I go with what the LAW requires unless it’s stated otherwise. Go look at the classifieds right now there are a couple ads that clearly state BOS required. Those are respectful sellers that are clear up front because they know they want more than LA law requires.

Very simple to put it in the ad.

thperez1972 · Nov 30, 2017

bigtattoo79 said:
And I’m not ok with a stranger storing my personal information online either.

Again each person must do what they feel most comfortable with. All that matters is that you are up front with the person *as it sounds you are*.

Alright...I have the solution. Match the face of the person to the face on the DL then match the name on the DL to the name on the car registration. The license plate number is then recorded. It's not personal information. The courts have repeatedly ruled you have no expectation of privacy with respect to a license plate.

thperez1972 · Nov 30, 2017

bigtattoo79 said:
I go with what the LAW requires unless it’s stated otherwise. Go look at the classifieds right now there are a couple ads that clearly state BOS required. Those are respectful sellers that are clear up front because they know they want more than LA law requires.

Very simple to put it in the ad.

And some of those respectul sellers must have only recently learned respect. I've noticed a couple posts that talk about a BOS that were edited after this thread was started. Either that or they didn't list it because they felt a certain way and didn't realize some people were so passionate about it.

I'm not going to change your mind but a BOS is for the protection of the buyer as well. Let's say there's a great deal on a pistol you just can't pass up. The seller is willing to part with it for a good price with no paper trail. Little do you know, the pistol's original owner returns home from vacation shortly after the sale and discovers his house had been broken into. He files a police report and lists the pistol as stolen.

Months go by and, for whatever reason, the police have occasion to run the serial number of your recently purchased piston. It comes back as stolen. Now the conversation can go one of two ways.

"Sir, are you aware this pistol is stolen?"
"No, officer, I didn't. I just bought it a few months ago. I can show you the bill of sale."
"Well, according to the bill of sale, you bought it from Mr John Special at about the time the owner was out of town and his house was broken into"

-or-

"Sir, are you aware this pistol is stolen?"
"No, officer, I didn't. I just bought it a few months ago."
"Who did you by it from?"
"A guy."
"Does the guy have a name?"
"I guess he does but I didn't ask for it because the law said I didn't need it. But he goes by the screen name of BuckRectum110."
"Is that so? How about you come to the police station with me and you can tell me all about the guy. I'll even let you ride in the back of my funny looking car with the little blinking lights."

Just something to think about.

bigtattoo79 · Dec 1, 2017

thperez1972 said:
And some of those respectul sellers must have only recently learned respect. I've noticed a couple posts that talk about a BOS that were edited after this thread was started. Either that or they didn't list it because they felt a certain way and didn't realize some people were so passionate about it.

I'm not going to change your mind but a BOS is for the protection of the buyer as well. Let's say there's a great deal on a pistol you just can't pass up. The seller is willing to part with it for a good price with no paper trail. Little do you know, the pistol's original owner returns home from vacation shortly after the sale and discovers his house had been broken into. He files a police report and lists the pistol as stolen.

Months go by and, for whatever reason, the police have occasion to run the serial number of your recently purchased piston. It comes back as stolen. Now the conversation can go one of two ways.

"Sir, are you aware this pistol is stolen?"
"No, officer, I didn't. I just bought it a few months ago. I can show you the bill of sale."
"Well, according to the bill of sale, you bought it from Mr John Special at about the time the owner was out of town and his house was broken into"

-or-

"Sir, are you aware this pistol is stolen?"
"No, officer, I didn't. I just bought it a few months ago."
"Who did you by it from?"
"A guy."
"Does the guy have a name?"
"I guess he does but I didn't ask for it because the law said I didn't need it. But he goes by the screen name of BuckRectum110."
"Is that so? How about you come to the police station with me and you can tell me all about the guy. I'll even let you ride in the back of my funny looking car with the little blinking lights."

Just something to think about.

Dude you don’t have to change my mind. I was always a fan of doing a BOS. Years ago I was criticized on BS for wanting one. Back then I just wanted a full name, serial number, amount paid, location of deal and date the sale took place. Would look at a DL or ID just enough to confirm John Doe was in fact John Doe. Now I’m not ok with “too” much info being taken off my DL or my info being stored on a strangers I-cloud.

Finally I got over the BOS thing and guess what the guy on the next sale wanted one lol it’s so mixed on what people want “I think it should be posted in the ad”.

Wanting to have a paper trail and not wanting my info in a strangers hands is why I no longer do private sales of guns.

thperez1972 · Dec 1, 2017

bigtattoo79 said:
Dude you don’t have to change my mind. I was always a fan of doing a BOS. Years ago I was criticized on BS for wanting one. Back then I just wanted a full name, serial number, amount paid, location of deal and date the sale took place. Would look at a DL or ID just enough to confirm John Doe was in fact John Doe. Now I’m not ok with *too* much info being taken off my DL or my info being stored on a strangers I-cloud.

Finally I got over the BOS thing and guess what the guy on the next sale wanted one lol it’s so mixed on what people want *I think it should be posted in the ad*.

Wanting to have a paper trail and not wanting my info in a strangers hands is why I no longer do private sales of guns.

Sorry. I probably should have broken that post into a reply to you and a general reply.

bigtattoo79 · Dec 1, 2017

thperez1972 said:
Sorry. I probably should have broken that post into a reply to you and a general reply.

I didn’t take offense to anything so don’t be sorry.

I just wanted to be clear that I like having a paper trail but don’t like giving too much info out “kinda of a no win situation lol”.

My other point is: If I see a ad for a gun I wanna buy and the seller doesn’t say anything about a BOS in the ad I assume he doesn’t want to do a BOS. “I know what they say about assuming things” The reason I assume that is because LA law doesn’t require it and 90% of people that I know doesn’t do them for private sales.

Kinda like a couple months ago I find a boat trailer for sale text the guy a offer he accepts offer we set a day and time to make the deal. I get there and then he tells me he has no title for it and I should have asked about the title up front. In my mind LA law requires me to register a trailer for use on public roads so I’d assume he had a title because it wasn’t stated otherwise.

If I’m selling a boat trailer in LA and “don’t” have a title I’m gonna list that in the ad because I’m sure most people need it.

Bayou Boys · Dec 3, 2017

There is a transfer gun bill of sale on line where he or she signs it saying they are not a felon. you and the buyer sign add address DL keep the paper in your other important paper work in case the gun is or was ever used in a crime. Google firearm bill of sale. Hope this helps

Bayou Boys · Dec 3, 2017

I sold a gun 2 years ago got a call form Kenner Police dept. asking if I owned a 40cal S&W I told him I sold the gun at that point He sad the gun Shot at his EX and they had the taken the gun as evidence, what ever this is worth. Its your choice had you would like to handle it, with or with out BOS

Bayou Boys · Dec 3, 2017

Sorry for the misspelling the Guy shot at his EX with the gun

JBP55 · Dec 3, 2017

Bayou Boys said:
I sold a gun 2 years ago got a call form Kenner Police dept. asking if I owned a 40cal S&W I told him I sold the gun at that point He sad the gun Shot at his EX and they had the taken the gun as evidence, what ever this is worth. Its your choice had you would like to handle it, with or with out BOS

Common practice for the LEA to contact the original owner. You give the name/number of the buyer to the LEO if you have it and they go from there.

Seeking help with my first private gun sale process

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