Rut in St. Tammany or Tangipohoa?

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  • Hoggin

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    Nov 17, 2014
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    This is my first serious deer season to hunt, so I'm still learning.

    I'm trying to figure out if rut has started in St. Tammany or Tangipohoa parishes.

    I've got cameras in St. Tammany on private property and so far I've not seen signs that fawns have separated from their mothers nor that bucks are starting to follow the does.

    In Tangipohoa I was scouting our lease last week and saw brand new scrapes and rubs in separate locations. Don't the bucks scrape and rub just before the start of rut?

    Has anyone seen signs of the rut starting in either of these two parishes?

    What other signs should I look for to determine when rut is about to start or is in progress?
     

    bowhtr1

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    This is my first serious deer season to hunt, so I'm still learning.

    I'm trying to figure out if rut has started in St. Tammany or Tangipohoa parishes.

    I've got cameras in St. Tammany on private property and so far I've not seen signs that fawns have separated from their mothers nor that bucks are starting to follow the does.

    In Tangipohoa I was scouting our lease last week and saw brand new scrapes and rubs in separate locations. Don't the bucks scrape and rub just before the start of rut?

    Has anyone seen signs of the rut starting in either of these two parishes?

    What other signs should I look for to determine when rut is about to start or is in progress?
    In tangi and not seeing much chasing. Found a few scrapes. Bucks still hanging out with each other.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     

    Hoggin

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    So when the bucks break out of their bachelor groups they roam solo and that could be the start of rut?

    I just downloaded two new SD card data and I'm seeing a fair amount of buck fighting now.

    One of my plots is just smaller than a full acre of winter wheat. It's getting a lot of action right now, but it's all at night. Three weeks ago my neighbor shot off 1000 rounds of .223 and a few tannerite bombs. He just doesn't understand the effect that has on the deer. Bunch of neighbors who all have acreage are upset, but he just doesn't get it. Yesterday I captured my first day deer picture since he made all that noise, so I'm hoping rut won't start until they come back during the day. Again, I'm new to white tail hunting so I don't know how long it takes for the deer to stop being nocturnal and come back during the day. I've intentionally not hunted this St. Tammany property yet because I wanted to save it for rut to get a chance at a trophy. Most of the deer on the property are 1.5 or 2.5 years old and I don't want to shoot the juveniles. Lots of spikes, so I save my hunts for rut... then the neighbor practices for zombie invasion in late November. Wonderful.
     

    Hoggin

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    QDMA created the following map for peak rut times. Do yaull think this is an accurate depiction of rut in SE LA ?

    qdma_rut_map_2.jpg
    [/url][/IMG]
     
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    bowhtr1

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    QDMA created the following map for peak rut times. Do yaull think this is an accurate depiction of rut in SE LA ?

    qdma_rut_map_2.jpg
    [/url][/IMG]
    Don't agree with that map at all. Not even close in North Louisiana and all of Mississippi.

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    bowhtr1

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    Yes the rut is begining when the bucks break up and mainly when doe' s run off there fawns.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     

    tbone

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    Here is a detailed map of main rut dates for Louisiana. This map was generated by Dave Moreland, Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Deer Study Leader. The rut times for this map was generated by measuring fetuses from hundreds of doe ovaries throughout the state and back dating the time of conception from the size of the fetus.

    viewer.php
    [/URL][/IMG]
     

    Trailboss

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    Jumped a nice 8-point buck on Dec 8 around noon tending a doe in the azaleas in the front yard, ~130 feet from the house. Of course, he doesn't pass by my stand during the day in the pasture 300 yds from the house in the other direction. So, the rut is definitely ongoing in E. Feliciana as of the first week in Dec.
     

    bowhtr1

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    That one looks much better. I have two different types of deer. I have dark ones that have black faces and much darker body. And the other are lighter in color. They go in heat a month apart. Dec/Jan. They don't hang around together. When the groups meet the fighting begins.

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    225todd

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    As far as where I’m at the map is pretty close. I hunt in western Caddo parish right at the Texas line and the deer are normally in peak rut right around Thanksgiving week or the week after.
     

    Emperor

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    Dave Moreland's map is about as accurate as it can get without actually being in the woods everyday (where you hunt), from late Nov. to the end of the season. Where I hunt, I use my own theory on what is happening. First, remember it is freaking hot! The average temp for this time of year is 45 degrees in the morning. It's nearly 80 today. :dunno: These animals are wearing fur coats they cannot remove. And, they have taken on fat underneath already. So keep that in mind as I explain my theory.

    I hunt a bottomland hardwood wetland so scrapes mean nothing to me. What I do know from my extensive experience is from October to November, you should see plenty of does and some immature bucks that you may or may not know where there last year. The more you hunt (as time passes), the less you will see. As we approach December the sightings of bucks dwindles. Inside of December, near the mid-way point, the does disappear. I refer to that on my property as them; "going underground." Why? The next phase is beginning; "Patrolling." That is the bucks starting to look for where the does are hanging. I have never shot any of the mature bucks on my property any earlier than December 15. But those that I did from the 15th to the 1st of January were not "chasing." But are about to go! In lower East Baton Rouge Parish, if you are not in the woods from Christmas Day to January 11, you are missing the prime rut!

    So here is my buck hunting process:

    October 1 - Oct. 31 (bowhunting; try to shoot does cause I like bowhunting). If I had an opportunity at a mature buck, I would smoke him too.
    Nov. 1 - Dec. 14 (primitive & rifle), I will shoot does for DMAP, and for meat; but only if I am close enough to my bike where it is easy to recover the animal.
    Dec. 15 - Jan. 11 (rifle) I go deep in, walk far, away from any other places I hunted in the past. I am only going to take mature bucks only.

    The movement theory is:

    Early season unawareness - Deer have been unmolested for 7 months. They will have forgotten about hunters/humans.
    Does go underground - Does do not really want to be run down and raped by multiple bucks, so they hide
    Patrolling - Bucks are looking for the does. Not to chase, to be ready and near them.
    Pre-rut patrolling - Bucks start getting more agitated. Rubs show up more.
    1st Full rut - Watch out!
    Post rut - Bucks start to fade, does still hiding.
    Pre 2nd rut - does start showing a bit to feed.
    Season is over before 2nd full rut in my area.

    I have taken 8 mature bucks in the last 5 years. One was over 7 1/2 years old, 2 were over 6 1/2. I have pics on the site in past threads. I believe I have my area figured out. All places are different. Your best teacher? Actual hunting time in the woods.

    Good luck!
     

    Hoggin

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    Nov 17, 2014
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    Well done Emperor. Thanks for the details. My guess is my bucks are either patrolling or more than likely pre-rut patrolling.

    Dave Moreland's map appears to be more accurate in SE LA that the QDMA map. In my area of St. Tammany, I am right on the edge of the first half and second half of the two January breeding periods. I'm not seeing any more does on camera and I'm getting buck groups with measurable slap-fighting. Not hard core fighting, but I can tell they are figuring out their pecking order. I've got most of my cameras set to video so I'm getting some pretty good visuals.

    The St. Tammany property is also low wetlands. With all the snow and rain in the past week or two it's a flooded mess. I've not yet figured out how the deer patterns change when these heavy rains create flooding through the property, but I'm sure they move to higher neighboring ground as my SD cards are blank. Perhaps my particular piece of land hunts better in drier conditions, which seems to make common sense.

    I've got three deer in the freezer from multiple DWF zones this year, so now I'm looking to be choosy. I've got meat, now i'd like a trophy. Want a large mature buck if I'm going to shoot a 4th this season. Will start to hunt the places other hunters do not go and try to time that to rut.

    Really appreciate all the advise!

    PS - I put out another hog corral trap this weekend to help a landowner reduce his hog population. I used to get so excited about laying down new corral traps, but once you figure the hogs out it's not very challenging. Mature white tail hunting seems to have a much larger learning curve. A lot more to learn hunting white tail than trapping dumb tough pigs. Still believe in reducing the hog population as much as I can, but white tail hunting is much more challenging so far.
     

    Emperor

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    Well done Emperor. Thanks for the details. My guess is my bucks are either patrolling or more than likely pre-rut patrolling.

    Dave Moreland's map appears to be more accurate in SE LA that the QDMA map. In my area of St. Tammany, I am right on the edge of the first half and second half of the two January breeding periods. I'm not seeing any more does on camera and I'm getting buck groups with measurable slap-fighting. Not hard core fighting, but I can tell they are figuring out their pecking order. I've got most of my cameras set to video so I'm getting some pretty good visuals.

    The St. Tammany property is also low wetlands. With all the snow and rain in the past week or two it's a flooded mess. I've not yet figured out how the deer patterns change when these heavy rains create flooding through the property, but I'm sure they move to higher neighboring ground as my SD cards are blank. Perhaps my particular piece of land hunts better in drier conditions, which seems to make common sense.

    I've got three deer in the freezer from multiple DWF zones this year, so now I'm looking to be choosy. I've got meat, now i'd like a trophy. Want a large mature buck if I'm going to shoot a 4th this season. Will start to hunt the places other hunters do not go and try to time that to rut.

    Really appreciate all the advise!

    PS - I put out another hog corral trap this weekend to help a landowner reduce his hog population. I used to get so excited about laying down new corral traps, but once you figure the hogs out it's not very challenging. Mature white tail hunting seems to have a much larger learning curve. A lot more to learn hunting white tail than trapping dumb tough pigs. Still believe in reducing the hog population as much as I can, but white tail hunting is much more challenging so far.

    Try to grunt right now! All my bucks were called in to it. I only use a Haydel's DG-87. They hate it; and they don't come quietly to it!

    The grunt string I use is: "Whooo" "Whooo" "Who" "Who" "Who" (every other string I let the last "who" tail off a bit).

    Wait at least 30 minutes before using the same grunt string again. Do it throughout the entire time you are settled in your tree. However, when you first get to your stand, wait till the woods settle and you are comfortably in place before you start your first string of grunts. Do not grunt within 20 minutes of you getting down! And don't over hunt the same spot! In like a ghost; out like a ghost!

    And remember this; "If you want to shoot bigger bucks; JUST shoot bigger bucks!"

    You will be surprised at how many deer you see when you are truly looking and waiting "only" for bigger bucks! ;)
     
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    Emperor

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    Hoggin, I forgot to tell you how impressed I am with your hunting maturity! You are a true student of the game! Your increased success over the years is a testament to that. You will only get better and be more successful as you stay on it and stay with it!

    I guess my question is, "What kind of f'n job you got where you can go hunting more than me?" :mamoru:
     

    Hoggin

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    Forgot to tell tbone "thanks" for sharing that rut map. It's a nice resource.

    Appreciate the kind words.

    If it's the weekend I'm in the woods either working with my wife with various saws on our property, or in camo with a weapon. There have been a lot of weekends since Oct 1. Shot my first doe opening day of primitive season with .444 at 155 yards, then went to a friend's "five star" camp in St. Mary parish and shot a doe, then an hour later a buck, from 50 and 75 yards with 12 gauge slug. Two dropped where they were hit and the long slug shot was too far back and clipped the rear of the lungs so he ran for about 40 yards before falling. Count all the weekends from Oct 1 to now and you'll see most hunts are fruitless. Still lots to learn. I've got scent control nearly mastered and always pay attention to the wind, but I'm finding that wunderground.com does not always have accurate wind predictions. What websites do you use for wind data?

    I still figdet too much to be a successful bow hunter and have had a few naps during hunts. Right now I'm working on locating the deer spots that others don't frequent. **I've recently learned that ridges can be deer superhighways, although I've not taken a deer on a ridge yet. I started by using caltopo.com to identify ridges leading to water/creeks. Specifically ridges that have significant distance between permanent stand locations. My camp has about 30 stands on 1100 acres. Members' kids often get their first deer (80-100#) in these big comfortable box stands along a 50-foot wide powerline, pipeline, trail, etc. Hunting these locations is no longer interesting to me. Between these stands are large areas of unhunted dense forest -- often too dense to access. I'm betting that's where the big boys call home. When I'm riding trails between stands I've started paying attention to the wildlife superhighways along the ridges. Nearly every ridge that is far from permanent stands has these superhighways. So we put out a few cameras sure enough tons of activity. But the trails are only 10-15 feet wide, so it's not a lot of time to get into position and fire. My thinking is during rut, watch the doe enter and exit the ATV trail as she walks the ridge, then immediately prepare for that buck that is 20 yards behind her.

    I don't know anything about calling game. The haydel's caller you mentioned is $13 on Amazon so I ordered one, but don't know how to use it -- or any other call. I guess youtube videos is where I'll start unless you have any suggestions for websites designed with info the the beginner caller.

    I'll be in the rain at 6am Suturday morning. Park the ATV 500 yards from my hunt spot and walk on in. Looks to be a light rain coming through, just enough to dampen the sound of my approach and setup. Not enough rain to cause the animals to bed down. Going to try a new spot that I don't think anyone has ever hunted at my club. It doesn't look like a great hunting spot, but **every** time I drive by I see fresh prints deer, hog and coyote prints.
     

    tbone

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    "Forgot to tell tbone "thanks" for sharing that rut map. It's a nice resource."
    You are very welcome. The map is less of a generalized map like the QDMA map and more specific to Louisiana. Even then the lines are not concrete walls and there is bound to be some margin of error in the boundaries.

    Here is some information that you may also find interesting.

    http://deerandforests.net/resources/checklist-of-woody-herbaceous-deer-food-plants-of-louisiana.pdf

    I also recommend this book.

    https://www.sportsmangear.com/products/louisiana-whitetails
     
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    Hoggin

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    tbone, thanks for both resources. Ordered the book (wish shipping was a bit less).

    Our hunt camp is currently being timbered for the pine. Mixture of clear-cut areas and 50% thinning. I'm telling the guys right now not to sweat it, because for the next 3-4 years we should have phenomenal early successional growth (reference: https://www.qdma.com/dont-fear-reaper-timber-harvest-good-deer/). The largest deer we see at the camp are 8-points, and still there are not many and their rack mass is thin. Along with age, excess nutrition determines how large the racks get (or so I've read). DNA plays a part, but a smaller role compared to nutrition and age. So, with early successional growth entering the next few years on a few hundred acres, wow, we should be set up well. The resources I've foind have nearly all been from QDMA.com which I've found to be an invaluable place to begin learning. Even went to their annual conference this past Summer in New Orleans. However, what QDMA lacks is a Louisiana focus. That's where your literature comes in and I greatly appreciate it.

    My wife and I have recently purchased acreage in St. Tammany. It's raw land and probably 35% wet. If I stand up and stick my arms straight out, everything below my arms is pretty much what a deer will eat. What I see is nothing. A few balckberry, American Beautyberry (French Mulberry) and of course poison ivy. But no significant sources of food in the first 4 or 5 feet of growth. So there is no real reason for does to bed on my property near food sources. Since bucks tend to bed outside does, I don't have them living on my property either. I've learned a few major travel pathways on ridges, near ponds, etc. but basically my land is a go-between road. That will change. Food plots are a fun few afternoons with a sidebyside and an ice chest, but early successional growth, I think, is key. And cover. Right now my property is so thick with privet and wax myrtle it's tough to move at all. We are hand clearing so it's slow going, but every time my wife and I clear an area and let a little sunlight hit the ground, that early growth comes up and I always see it being browsed by the deer. So, to the point of your literature references, thanks again because I can learn what they like to eat in my longleaf pine flatwood area. I suspect I may have some brown-n-down hunters around me, so eventually the goal is to create ideal large food sources to bring the doe in. Around those food sources create thick safe bedding areas for the doe to call home. Outside of that ring the bucks will bed. Then, I'll be able to hunt them right as they wake from their naps because they won't have to travel far to get to the food source. I want my property to be the first food source they hit after waking up, that means I have to create an environment conducive to them living on my property. Learning their food preferences is a key element. Then habitat focus. Then stand location once they have their travel lanes figured out (or I help create them in the way I want them designed).
     

    Emperor

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    This has been an interesting season thus far. We actually saw the first bucks chasing this past Saturday. January 13th?!? That is late for us. I believe peak is the next few days. Again, that is late for my area. But, I was recently at a highly managed deer property in Avoyelles Parish last weekend where it is hunted or at least monitored 7 days per week. Coincidentally, they are on the same Rut cycle as I am. And low and behold, their deer were not rutting yet either. Everyone there mentioned that of the dozens of deer they saw throughout the weekend, there was only some tending. No chasing at all.

    I am on DMAP, and so is my neighbor. We only shoot mature bucks. between us we hunt over 1000 acres of contiguous property, and that adjoins another 1300 acres on his other side (2300 plus several hundred more in the area). Also on DMAP with self managed buck rules. We text regularly after the hunts to determine what is going on in our woods. Guess what? No chasing last week. So, the bottom line is; for whatever the reason, this rut is late! Not by much, but later than regular.

    I will try to be the woods every day from today till Sunday and let you know what I see.

    So
     

    Hoggin

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    Thanks for the update.

    I went to check my cameras and found this picture taken at 10am this morning (the date stamp is incorrect). The fourth doe is just off camera to the left identified by the red arrow. Four doe in one group with no bucks following. Location is central St. Tammany. What can you infer from this?

    4doe3.jpg
    [/url][/IMG]
     
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