Teacher Arrested at school board meeting...

RaleighReloader · Jan 11, 2018

cajun_64 said:
I see everyone blaming the board for her arrest. The board only removed her from the meeting, which also means the building. What happened after those doors closed between her and that deputy city marshall is what caused her arrest. Out LEO community can correct me if I am wrong, but once he decides to make an arrest, there is nothing that board can do as he is acting as an officer of the law. What happened after that door closed is not on any videos, prior to the handcuffs.

The board should never have ejected her from the meeting in the first place. And someone from the board could have easily walked over to the deputy and asked that he not arrest her, since the board had no intention of actually pursuing legal action against her.

And the deputy could have changed his mind about arresting her at any point. At all points in this encounter he acted on his own (poor) discretion.

Mike

340six · Jan 11, 2018

At 12:07 on the WWL 4 news at news Superintendent is crying. Saying how it was the wrong thing to do! And one of the worse thing he has had happen.
That he hopes everyone can forgive him.
He knows his head and others are on the chopping block

JBP55 · Jan 11, 2018

cajun_64 said:
I see everyone blaming the board for her arrest. The board only removed her from the meeting, which also means the building. What happened after those doors closed between her and that deputy city marshall is what caused her arrest. Out LEO community can correct me if I am wrong, but once he decides to make an arrest, there is nothing that board can do as he is acting as an officer of the law. What happened after that door closed is not on any videos, prior to the handcuffs.

In the lawsuit the School Board will probably assume/pay Partial Liability for a small % of the settlement and the payout may not be disclosed by either party.

cajun_64 · Jan 11, 2018

The Removal of the teacher and her subsequent arrest is indicative of the deeper problems with our school board and at the center of those problems was the man with the gavel that night. Fortunately his last term will end in December of this year

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Gator 45/70 · Jan 11, 2018

Big rally going on in Abbeville today

Bigchillin83 · Jan 11, 2018

as there should be!!!!

Gator 45/70 said:
Big rally going on in Abbeville today

Magdump · Jan 11, 2018

JBP55 said:
Not wise to attack or threaten someone in Law Enforcement regardless of their poor decisions. The coming Lawsuit which will be his second one for using excessive force will address his actions and determine which direction his future work takes which may or may not be in Law Enforcement.

I agree whole heartedly brother, and I say this with all due respect for law enforcement, but sometimes emotions run high and I’m pretty sure if one good citizen came along and put him in a rear naked choke and asked someone to call the police to report the assault and maybe for another hand or two, some of the bystanders may have done so. Some people deserve to be *Handled* but that woman did not and sometimes lines need to be drawn and people with or without badges need to be handled.
Did anyone else notice the chairperson direct the deputy to oust her from the proceedings? He needs to be handled too.

Kraut · Jan 13, 2018

cajun_64 said:
I see everyone blaming the board for her arrest. The board only removed her from the meeting, which also means the building. What happened after those doors closed between her and that deputy city marshall is what caused her arrest. Out LEO community can correct me if I am wrong, but once he decides to make an arrest, there is nothing that board can do as he is acting as an officer of the law. What happened after that door closed is not on any videos, prior to the handcuffs.

I don't know the teacher, I don't know the officer, I don't know the board members. I watched the video and I read an article. From such, I learned that there was confusion over her response, as someone on the board had apparently directed a question back at her after she said her piece, and she was attempting to continue that discussion, which someone else felt was out of turn. At whatever point the marshal was asked to remove her, and he attempted to do so, she met that request with the first level of resistance, verbal non-compliance (refusing to heed the direction and arguing the point of whether she had to leave or not). When he attempted to guide her out, she reacted physically, pulling away (physical resistance without violence), which, if she had already been told she was under arrest (I don't believe she had), would have justified a further use of force to arrest her. She then acquiesced and began leaving on her own, still verbalizing as she did so, but the camera does not remain on her. While off camera, you can still hear what seems to be a continuation by her at the rear, which may have been her refusing to leave as directed, and may have prompted the marshal to decide that arrest was the next step. If he reached that decision and, after telling her such met with the same response as before, where she pulled away, then grabbing her, and even taking her down to control and handcuff her, may have been totally warranted. Yes, that's a whole lot of "if" going on, but at this point that's where we all stand without more official, forthcoming statements from the involved parties/agencies, or the revelation of some heretofore unknown video that captured the actual occurrence of the arrest, not just the aftermath.

With broken sequence video, a room full of teachers on her side, a reference to an article that suggests excessive force in the marshal's past (the snippet referenced above says "accused" but not convicted/fired/written up, etc. - lawsuits and "accusations" happen all the time), the media jumping on "Teacher arrested for speaking out!" (she was not arrested for what she said), and now a bunch of backpedalling and crawfishing by scared small-town bureaucrats afraid to lose the power in their miniscule domains, it's a real sh!t-show for sure!

Now, what is the biggest crime here? Short of some definitive proof of a violation on the marshal's part, it's the manipulation that took place to slip someone $38K+/yr. through political back-dooring! From what I read, there was a long-standing impasse which prevented one side from getting their way, and a shady deal got a favorable vote despite well known opposition to the measure. That will now become the side story as the arrest of the teacher draws everyone's attention.

bigtattoo79 · Jan 14, 2018

Kraut said:
I don't know the teacher, I don't know the officer, I don't know the board members. I watched the video and I read an article. From such, I learned that there was confusion over her response, as someone on the board had apparently directed a question back at her after she said her piece, and she was attempting to continue that discussion, which someone else felt was out of turn. At whatever point the marshal was asked to remove her, and he attempted to do so, she met that request with the first level of resistance, verbal non-compliance (refusing to heed the direction and arguing the point of whether she had to leave or not). When he attempted to guide her out, she reacted physically, pulling away (physical resistance without violence), which, if she had already been told she was under arrest (I don't believe she had), would have justified a further use of force to arrest her. She then acquiesced and began leaving on her own, still verbalizing as she did so, but the camera does not remain on her. While off camera, you can still hear what seems to be a continuation by her at the rear, which may have been her refusing to leave as directed, and may have prompted the marshal to decide that arrest was the next step. If he reached that decision and, after telling her such met with the same response as before, where she pulled away, then grabbing her, and even taking her down to control and handcuff her, may have been totally warranted. Yes, that's a whole lot of "if" going on, but at this point that's where we all stand without more official, forthcoming statements from the involved parties/agencies, or the revelation of some heretofore unknown video that captured the actual occurrence of the arrest, not just the aftermath.

With broken sequence video, a room full of teachers on her side, a reference to an article that suggests excessive force in the marshal's past (the snippet referenced above says "accused" but not convicted/fired/written up, etc. - lawsuits and "accusations" happen all the time), the media jumping on "Teacher arrested for speaking out!" (she was not arrested for what she said), and now a bunch of backpedalling and crawfishing by scared small-town bureaucrats afraid to lose the power in their miniscule domains, it's a real sh!t-show for sure!

Now, what is the biggest crime here? Short of some definitive proof of a violation on the marshal's part, it's the manipulation that took place to slip someone $38K+/yr. through political back-dooring! From what I read, there was a long-standing impasse which prevented one side from getting their way, and a shady deal got a favorable vote despite well known opposition to the measure. That will now become the side story as the arrest of the teacher draws everyone's attention.

So do you agree with the LEO from what was recorded?

Danny Abear · Jan 14, 2018

bigtattoo79 said:
So do you agree with the LEO from what was recorded?

1 - There is usually rules posted at the entrance to these types of meetings.

2 - The tail does not wag the dog..

Kraut · Jan 15, 2018

bigtattoo79 said:
So do you agree with the LEO from what was recorded?

What was recorded was him taking steps to remove her, then the aftermath of him arresting her, but not the in-between showing the actions on her part leading to his decision to arrest, or his actions to make the arrest, only the aftermath. Like I said in my post, there's a whole lot of "if/may" involved. If he gave her lawful directions to leave and she refused, that's sufficient to arrest. If she was told she was being arrested and began to pull away again, then taking her to the floor with an arm bar may have been the most efficient and effective means of gaining control of her as quickly as possible. On the ground is often the best place to gain control of a resistant suspect, and some people can really squirm and twist like you wouldn't believe. I've seen no released statement's of the marshal's report of the incident, just media stories about a teacher being arrested for speaking out. She was asked to leave the meeting, and it seems likely that she refused some part of that lawful directive to enough degree that the marshal decided to arrest her for it. If (there's that "if" again) that's the case, then yeah, I agree he has the authority to arrest her. It might not have been the decision I would have made myself, but I wasn't there.

The rule of ATM may have been in play (STOP, you porno perverts! NOT THAT KIND!). A(sk)T(ell)M(ake). Ask her to leave. Tell her to leave and the consequence if she still refuses. Make her leave, in your own publicly funded taxi to a publicly funded overnight holiday. The amount of repetitions of Ask and Tell are up to the discretion of the Asking/Telling officer based upon prevailing circumstances, but the Make is a one time deal. There is another Ask part of that comes into play, that is her Asking to go to jail by not complying when given fair warning of the consequences.

My main point is this - The media has made a big story of a teacher being roughly arrested for questioning her higher-ups, and that is not the case. The arrest resulted surrounding her being ordered to disperse from the venue, and then because the arrest involved physical circumstances that resulted in her being taken to the ground (with no full explanation yet, I'll give benefit of the doubt to the marshal for now), it's being portrayed as something that much more horrible. I have fresh scrapes and scabs on my knuckles from taking a resisting female shoplifter to the asphalt last week, AFTER the Taser failed to connect sufficiently when she was fighting myself and another officer. Some women resist, some actively fight, and most can squirm and twist like an anaconda trying to choke a bucking bronco. She may have fully deserved to be arrested, or the marshal may have been power-tripping, but we can't know that from what is known from video at this point.

bigtattoo79 · Jan 16, 2018

Kraut said:
What was recorded was him taking steps to remove her, then the aftermath of him arresting her, but not the in-between showing the actions on her part leading to his decision to arrest, or his actions to make the arrest, only the aftermath. Like I said in my post, there's a whole lot of "if/may" involved. If he gave her lawful directions to leave and she refused, that's sufficient to arrest. If she was told she was being arrested and began to pull away again, then taking her to the floor with an arm bar may have been the most efficient and effective means of gaining control of her as quickly as possible. On the ground is often the best place to gain control of a resistant suspect, and some people can really squirm and twist like you wouldn't believe. I've seen no released statement's of the marshal's report of the incident, just media stories about a teacher being arrested for speaking out. She was asked to leave the meeting, and it seems likely that she refused some part of that lawful directive to enough degree that the marshal decided to arrest her for it. If (there's that "if" again) that's the case, then yeah, I agree he has the authority to arrest her. It might not have been the decision I would have made myself, but I wasn't there.

The rule of ATM may have been in play (STOP, you porno perverts! NOT THAT KIND!). A(sk)T(ell)M(ake). Ask her to leave. Tell her to leave and the consequence if she still refuses. Make her leave, in your own publicly funded taxi to a publicly funded overnight holiday. The amount of repetitions of Ask and Tell are up to the discretion of the Asking/Telling officer based upon prevailing circumstances, but the Make is a one time deal. There is another Ask part of that comes into play, that is her Asking to go to jail by not complying when given fair warning of the consequences.

My main point is this - The media has made a big story of a teacher being roughly arrested for questioning her higher-ups, and that is not the case. The arrest resulted surrounding her being ordered to disperse from the venue, and then because the arrest involved physical circumstances that resulted in her being taken to the ground (with no full explanation yet, I'll give benefit of the doubt to the marshal for now), it's being portrayed as something that much more horrible. I have fresh scrapes and scabs on my knuckles from taking a resisting female shoplifter to the asphalt last week, AFTER the Taser failed to connect sufficiently when she was fighting myself and another officer. Some women resist, some actively fight, and most can squirm and twist like an anaconda trying to choke a bucking bronco. She may have fully deserved to be arrested, or the marshal may have been power-tripping, but we can't know that from what is known from video at this point.

Great points and Thanks for taking the time to reply. I think she may have been pulling away “not fighting” and I agree being put on her butt may have been best “not like he was bashing her head in”. I would think there’s cameras in that hall but I’m sure they won’t be made public for some time.

Now based on people saying how the board handles women when they speak out I think that may “if true” be the bigger story.

thperez1972 · Jan 16, 2018

After the marshall approaches the teacher in the video and she refuses to leave, the marshall reaches out to grab the teacher's arm but the teacher pulls away, a form of active resistance. And when the teacher starts to walk down the aisle to leave, she repeatedly stops to address questions. This is pure speculation but a plausible scenario could be this. Once outside the room, the teacher stopped to talk to the marshall. The marshall instructed her to continue toward the door. The teacher, not moving, continued to talk to the marshall, a form of passive resistance. At this point with the teacher having not complied with verbal commands from the marshall, "hands on" is an appropriate force for the marshall to use. The marshall tried to take possession of her arm again to lead her out of the building and the teacher could have pulled away again. The marshall used a little more force to subdue the resisting teacher. Again, I wasn't there. And I have no more knowledge of the situation so I cannot say it happened like that. But I believe the scenario is plausible given what appears in the video. If the scenario is close, the marshall would have been reacting to the teacher's resistance.

Magdump · Jan 16, 2018

Another point to ponder: the woman was doing nothing wrong in the first place, the LEO was obviously acting on orders from the chairperson to remove her. It’s pretty clear in the video that she is being civil when asking questions of the committee and appears to have done so at the appropriate time during the meeting. So, was the LEO
doing his job? And I mean enforcing the law, not being paid muscle to hush any opposition.
Personally, I hope she sues the pants off the lot of them.

thperez1972 · Jan 16, 2018

Magdump said:
Another point to ponder: the woman was doing nothing wrong in the first place, the LEO was obviously acting on orders from the chairperson to remove her. It’s pretty clear in the video that she is being civil when asking questions of the committee and appears to have done so at the appropriate time during the meeting. So, was the LEO
doing his job? And I mean enforcing the law, not being paid muscle to hush any opposition.
Personally, I hope she sues the pants off the lot of them.

If the board had the legal authority to instruct the teacher to leave the meeting regardless of her civility, then the LEO was acting under the color of law and could be afforded qualified immunity. Whether the board was right to do what they did may not be relevant. Right and legal are not always the same thing.

Paintball · Jan 23, 2018

http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2018/01/vermilion_parish_school_board_1.html

Less than two weeks after a teacher was arrested following a board meeting, the president of the Vermilion Parish School Board has resigned.

http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2018/01/vermilion_teacher_says_school.html

Earlier, Hargrave told The Associated Press she believes Vermilion Parish School Board President Anthony Fontana should resign. She declined to suggest any discipline for Reggie Hilts, the deputy city marshal who handcuffed her on the hallway floor after she left the meeting and marched her out of the building.

"He needs training," the middle school English teacher said. "Whether he needs to lose his job, I don't know."

She declined, at first, to say with certainty whether she would file a lawsuit in the matter. "We'll see how it goes," she said when asked again. "But I clearly feel my First Amendment rights were violated, and I feel like, yeah, there will be a lawsuit filed for that."

The American Civil Liberties Union and her teachers union are investigating the case.

cajun_64 · Jan 23, 2018

It is really a whole lot to do about nothing. She got the teachers lack of a pay raise for 10 years on the nationl media.

First amendment rights violated? For a college educated teacher, I have to ponder her education on school board meetings much less special mettings. Nothing legally will happen to the school board, unless they want to assume some of the liability. There was 1 issue on the agenda, the Superintendant's contract. She had her time limit to speak(yes all meetings have time limits on speakers) and they let her speak about the teachers not getting a pay raise in 10 years. This had nothing to do with that contract. Anyone else asked her a question was out of order and was not corrected properly. Teacher pay needed to be addressed at another metting, after being put on the agenda.

What led to this? for 2 years a group of board members(mine included) were stonewalling the superintendant new contract. Everything was a fight and they didn't play well together. Alot of work needs to be done in this school board. And yes, $38,000.00 raise in 1 contract is a lot cheaper than what getting the teachers raises will cost. So this is what will happen. Everyone wants to teachers to get a raise. The board can't just give them a raise, it can approve a referendum for it, then it will go out to a vote. It will come out for voters as a tax increase to increase teachers pay, on a mostly poor parish. We will see. Should get interesting.

Redd508 · Jan 23, 2018

cajun_64 said:
It is really a whole lot to do about nothing. She got the teachers lack of a pay raise for 10 years on the nationl media.

Cajun please correct me if I'm wrong, didn't the teacher's pay raise come up for a vote once or twice in the last 10 years and get voted down by this same outraged public?

cajun_64 · Jan 23, 2018

Redd508 said:
Cajun please correct me if I'm wrong, didn't the teacher's pay raise come up for a vote once or twice in the last 10 years and get voted down by this same outraged public?

I think it has, but not sure when or how often

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cajun_64 · Jan 23, 2018

As an update tonight, some changes are starting. The board president has resigned his seat. They have installed cameras in and around the meeting room and finally posted the rules, processes to get something on the agenda and meeting etiquette (for lack of a better word). The regular meeting coming up should be interesting

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Teacher Arrested at school board meeting...

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