I’d bet that Geo Metros have more more miles on the road than all Ferraris combined. Psa probably out sells most *quality* products due to affordability and maybe with that your getting more inexperienced operators complaining of issues.
Palmetto State Armory MP5 clone?
- Thread starter thperez1972
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I’d bet that Geo Metros have more more miles on the road than all Ferraris combined. Psa probably out sells most *quality* products due to affordability and maybe with that your getting more inexperienced operators complaining of issues.
My son just retired his 1995 GEO Prizm with close to 1 mil (that is a guess as the spedo gave up the ghost around the 600,000 mile mark)
True dat !!!
More than half of the ar's brought into the shop with issues were PSA junk.
Their quality is crap,their machining is crap.Even their own employees will
tell you,they are crap.We ordered a few kits from them years ago.Had to
be the worst lpk's on the market.We had the most issues out of their
uppers,which fail usually out of the box.Don't even get me started on their
bcg's,horrendous is about all I can say.We had to deal with their crappy
service dept, which was the worst that I ever remember dealing with in
15 years.Maybe they have cleaned their act up,but 10-12 years ago,I
wouldn't have bought a bobby pin from them.
And as others have stated,reviews on sites like that don't mean a squat
of beaners.The BBB is a serious joke,they are just a go between biz's
before small claims court.They couldn't rate a monkeys a$$ correctly if
it was on fire!!!
leadslinger972
*Banned*
I see my analogy went over your head.
PSA sells low quality parts that are mostly imported. Their complete rifles are of questionable quality, depending on how much you want to spend. I've seen more issues with PSA and Anderson parts than you could imagine.
I think the analogy, was taken just right.
Yes an Ed Brown is a great 1911 but some guys are Springfield $. And some have and are happy with Rockisland at 450 bucks.
They all know what they are getting. No one here is saying it is the best!
I think a better analogy is
High Point 9mm carbine is not a IWI Tavor 9mm. But still a great bang for the buck. With if this gun is done right, it will be a great gun for someone
Yes an Ed Brown is a great 1911 but some guys are Springfield $. And some have and are happy with Rockisland at 450 bucks.
They all know what they are getting. No one here is saying it is the best!
I think a better analogy is
High Point 9mm carbine is not a IWI Tavor 9mm. But still a great bang for the buck. With if this gun is done right, it will be a great gun for someone
Thanks ArtieD. Analogies are fine by me. Insults are not. I don’t mind someone giving an opinion about my favorite or least favorite vendor, but when personal attacks start flying it’s time to draw the line. Some folks just don’t understand the fine art of discussion and have trouble staying away from the insults. It’s a maturity thing, or lack thereof.
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leadslinger972
*Banned*
leadslinger972
*Banned*
I don't recall insulting you.
Jstevens56
Well-Known Member
Well this escalated quickly....
machinedrummer
Well-Known Member
I would love to see some pictures of the *Quality Rifles* being talked about. I doubt I’ve ever seen or held such a piece of greatness. Please post pictures and specs.
leadslinger972
*Banned*
You can read the specs here:
http://shop.bravocompanymfg.com/BCM-RECCE-16-Carbine-AR15-QRF-p/bcm-carbine-750-140.htm
*BCM is overrated
I honestly believe BCM is not on par with any of the top tier manufactures (LWRC, FN, DD, Wilson Combat, LMT, Larue, Noveske, Knight, HK ect.) Which makes sense as their prices are not as high as the above, but I also think they are below most of the mid grade manufactures/suppliers (Colt, Armalite, PSA, Spikes, REV Arms, Sig ect.) I know the uber BCM fanboys will go into troll mode but it doesn't make it any less true. I actually hate saying it since they are an American company and their owner is a Marine....I'm all about my USMC. But here are the facts.
-They don't pin their Gas blocks on most models, this matters to me, especially since I put serious rounds down range and most DOD/Mil contracts require it for good reason.
-Most of their barrel nuts are put on with some sort of thread locker. It took a freezer, heat gun, 6 foot cheater bar and two days to get it off. Not exactly field serviceable (I know you wouldn't take a barrel off in the field) and they will never get a GOV contract with that going on.
-Accuracy of their barrels are usually in the 2-4MOA range, even their MK12 model shoots 1.5MOA. If I don't get 1moa in a AR it's trash, most serious shooters think the same.
-Inconsistent tolerances between upper and lower pin holes, not mil spec at all. Worse upper lower rattle/fitment ever, makes bullet in top of mag rub against carrier and causes deformations in the casings. Plus it will cause wear in the friction points at a accelerated rate.
-Most parts are not made in house it seems, LPKs, buffer tubes, FSP and BCGs are identical to PSA and no doubt come from same supplier. BCM charges much more for the same parts, just called them special names.
-Inconsistent torque ratios on barrel nut, castle nut and pistol grip screw. This makes servicing horrible since the threads won't last as long.
-High wear with low friction abrasions on KMR, charging handles and upper receiver. My KMR has three serious scratches in it, only have 200 rounds through it mostly from a bipod. Charging handle looks like it fought in Nam, upper receiver was replaced, took coating clear off the shell deflector. I know it's technically not a coating. Looks are not super important to me, but you don't want metal showing....ever.
-incorrectly clocked rail and comp, rail was 4 degrees off, comp was 11, both to the left.
-Customer service is inconsistent, sometimes they are great....sometimes they are from another planet.
-THEY WILL NOT POST A BAD REVIEW ON THEIR WEBSITE......EVER. I had a very lengthy email trail going on with them and they flat out told me they would never post a bad review. Which actually falls under fraudulent advertisement since reviews are screened and used as a quality testament. They don't care what the issue is, and if they ever put out a unsafe product you won't know when you purchase since they won't display the bad review of it.
-THE LIST GOES ON.....
Accuracy has been horrid even when using a US Optics 10x with 20 different types of ammo, some which are the best you can put through a AR.....Federal Sierra Match, Gorrila, Fiochi Match ect. I haven't seen better than 2.5MOA in any stock BCM rifle or upper......ever. My PSA is a 1 MOA rifle, and that just puts them to shame since it cost half of what the BCM did. People say "they are combat rifles, they don't need to be MOA"........yes they do, what soldier/Marine in the world wants a less accurate rifle????? Why pay $700 for a 2.5moa BCM upper when a $400 Premium PSA upper will get you 1.5-2moa.
There are some good things, KMR rail is nice, lock up is probably best in the market or on par with Daniel Defense. BCGs, FSP are top grade (they don't make them, which is common for AR companies.) The Mod0 Comp is great, much better the A2, not worth $80 but still great. Their guns run, F2F of any kind is rare, and I don't see one falling apart easily since they over torque/thread lock everything. They are Mil-Spec on areas that matter (not mil-spec in a lot of other things) like feed ramps, bolt lock up, and gas systems.
I wouldn't mind buying parts from BCM, just not a all out rifle or upper. I can't see me ever buying or recommending another one of their barrels, and I don't see them lasting as a manufacturer much longer with these QC issues that are starting to come main stream. I HOPE that they reinvent their QC policy's and get their accuracy guidelines to 1MOA or it won't go out the door. Larue did this and now is one of the most dependable companies there is (customer service is....eeeeh.)*
I honestly believe BCM is not on par with any of the top tier manufactures (LWRC, FN, DD, Wilson Combat, LMT, Larue, Noveske, Knight, HK ect.) Which makes sense as their prices are not as high as the above, but I also think they are below most of the mid grade manufactures/suppliers (Colt, Armalite, PSA, Spikes, REV Arms, Sig ect.) I know the uber BCM fanboys will go into troll mode but it doesn't make it any less true. I actually hate saying it since they are an American company and their owner is a Marine....I'm all about my USMC. But here are the facts.
-They don't pin their Gas blocks on most models, this matters to me, especially since I put serious rounds down range and most DOD/Mil contracts require it for good reason.
-Most of their barrel nuts are put on with some sort of thread locker. It took a freezer, heat gun, 6 foot cheater bar and two days to get it off. Not exactly field serviceable (I know you wouldn't take a barrel off in the field) and they will never get a GOV contract with that going on.
-Accuracy of their barrels are usually in the 2-4MOA range, even their MK12 model shoots 1.5MOA. If I don't get 1moa in a AR it's trash, most serious shooters think the same.
-Inconsistent tolerances between upper and lower pin holes, not mil spec at all. Worse upper lower rattle/fitment ever, makes bullet in top of mag rub against carrier and causes deformations in the casings. Plus it will cause wear in the friction points at a accelerated rate.
-Most parts are not made in house it seems, LPKs, buffer tubes, FSP and BCGs are identical to PSA and no doubt come from same supplier. BCM charges much more for the same parts, just called them special names.
-Inconsistent torque ratios on barrel nut, castle nut and pistol grip screw. This makes servicing horrible since the threads won't last as long.
-High wear with low friction abrasions on KMR, charging handles and upper receiver. My KMR has three serious scratches in it, only have 200 rounds through it mostly from a bipod. Charging handle looks like it fought in Nam, upper receiver was replaced, took coating clear off the shell deflector. I know it's technically not a coating. Looks are not super important to me, but you don't want metal showing....ever.
-incorrectly clocked rail and comp, rail was 4 degrees off, comp was 11, both to the left.
-Customer service is inconsistent, sometimes they are great....sometimes they are from another planet.
-THEY WILL NOT POST A BAD REVIEW ON THEIR WEBSITE......EVER. I had a very lengthy email trail going on with them and they flat out told me they would never post a bad review. Which actually falls under fraudulent advertisement since reviews are screened and used as a quality testament. They don't care what the issue is, and if they ever put out a unsafe product you won't know when you purchase since they won't display the bad review of it.
-THE LIST GOES ON.....
Accuracy has been horrid even when using a US Optics 10x with 20 different types of ammo, some which are the best you can put through a AR.....Federal Sierra Match, Gorrila, Fiochi Match ect. I haven't seen better than 2.5MOA in any stock BCM rifle or upper......ever. My PSA is a 1 MOA rifle, and that just puts them to shame since it cost half of what the BCM did. People say "they are combat rifles, they don't need to be MOA"........yes they do, what soldier/Marine in the world wants a less accurate rifle????? Why pay $700 for a 2.5moa BCM upper when a $400 Premium PSA upper will get you 1.5-2moa.
There are some good things, KMR rail is nice, lock up is probably best in the market or on par with Daniel Defense. BCGs, FSP are top grade (they don't make them, which is common for AR companies.) The Mod0 Comp is great, much better the A2, not worth $80 but still great. Their guns run, F2F of any kind is rare, and I don't see one falling apart easily since they over torque/thread lock everything. They are Mil-Spec on areas that matter (not mil-spec in a lot of other things) like feed ramps, bolt lock up, and gas systems.
I wouldn't mind buying parts from BCM, just not a all out rifle or upper. I can't see me ever buying or recommending another one of their barrels, and I don't see them lasting as a manufacturer much longer with these QC issues that are starting to come main stream. I HOPE that they reinvent their QC policy's and get their accuracy guidelines to 1MOA or it won't go out the door. Larue did this and now is one of the most dependable companies there is (customer service is....eeeeh.)*
Jstevens56
Well-Known Member
I have nothing but good things to say about PSA. I Have AR's that are all PSA, some that are part PSA and others that are not PSA at all. I've handled and shot $2k+ BRO AR's and can say that the difference is not worth the price. The only thing I probably wouldnt buy is a PSA PTAC AR.
Let me add that when I say "not worth the price" I mean for the typical person. Yes, obviously they can be higher quality but PSA makes good stuff cheap.
Let me add that when I say "not worth the price" I mean for the typical person. Yes, obviously they can be higher quality but PSA makes good stuff cheap.
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Might see a doc about that memory loss. Or just try reading over what you post. And try to find fun in life. It usually keeps people from being so bitter and constantly attempting to stir up trouble where there is none. And by all means, if PSA has wronged you in the past, call them up and take it out on them rather than telling people they know nothing of quality or whatever. I’m just making generalizations tho...
You could give some guys a million dollars, some would be happy.......some would say what about the taxes.
It is true I worked with a guy who said:
He would not want to win the lottery, as he would hate to have to give the government all the $ in taxes. No lie. If ya really knew him you would know he was not bluffing.
Can we move on with a constructive discussion now?
It is true I worked with a guy who said:
He would not want to win the lottery, as he would hate to have to give the government all the $ in taxes. No lie. If ya really knew him you would know he was not bluffing.
Can we move on with a constructive discussion now?
Not exactly a budget build but not a high dollar one either. Loaded with PSA innards and a $121 HBAR barrel. After a 4 click scope correction it put the other 9 rounds in a decent group with a sub $200 scope off a $40 bipod. It has performed like this every time it’s been out with zero failures.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
leadslinger972
*Banned*
leadslinger972
*Banned*
I apologize if I stated that through observation I have come to the conclusion that you are uninformed, and that has somehow offended your tender heart.
Coming from the only guy still crying about bcm being the greatest and his all mighty wisdom, no one cares about your POV or your responses. We are just trying to make you shed enough tears to short out your electronic device so we can just be notified of responses that pertain to the topic at hand.
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