Scenario- Illegal church carry, church shooting occurs and good guy wins... Prison?
- Thread starter aceinyerface
- Start date
The Best online firearms community in Louisiana.
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
leadslinger972
*Banned*
I should buy you a beer.
Which happens every time you carry.
Not much innocence on strapping on a gun on anyday, I would think. Anytime you use a gun, someone else will decide if it is self defence or not for prosecution purposes, then buren of proof will begin.
Civil suits will happen almost always no matter the legal decision. JMHO
leadslinger972
*Banned*
So long as you're not breaking the law from the beginning, as you would illegal carrying in a church, you won't have to worry about innocence...
SouthernUnderGod
Well-Known Member
My suggestion to people who want to carry in church is to become a part of the church security ministry. If your church does not have one, start it. There is information and other resources available to help you get started. Every congregation should have this. There was a recent episode of Protect Yourself on the Sportsman Channel (Cox BR 258/1258) that dealt with an active shooter at church. The security ministry teams that I have learned about are comprised of church members, some of whom are LEO/Military (active or retired) and other CC holders, who have volunteered to serve. From securing entrances, to pre-planned engagement strategies, this is a good thing to train on.
THIS. If you're concerned for the well being of your family at church then getting involved to this level will benefit you more than carrying concealed by yourself. Then you don't have the legal question on your mind and can focus on why you're there in the first place.
This is such a fascinating, yet disturbing topic. Almost every church was rocked to their core after the Texas shooting, where if just one attendee had been carrying, many innocent people might still be alive. The pictures of those innocent children murdered by that whacko was highly upsetting.
Every pastor had to examine carefully his response for protecting his flock. Many chose to do nothing, many chose to hire offduty LE. And many chose to allow and encourage qualified people in the church to form a security team. Our church chose the latter. It became a somewhat delicate subject, but our pastor took a firm position and, along with a close church member prayerfully decided on the following;
1. Chose 6 mature men who already had their ccp, or were actively pursueing it.
2. Asked each one to commit to getting the required tactical training.
3. Chose a member who is an ex leo, currently active military to lead our team.
4. Announced to the congregation that a team was in place, and if a bg came in the door, that they should get on the floor, and the team would respond.
5. Rotating team members will also be walking around the facility during services with the goal of keeping any issues outside.
Is this a perfect plan?....I don't think there is such a thing. Like a great military leader once said..."A battle plan is perfect..until the first shot is fired."
By the way, our local sherrif supports these teams, and has 3 of his instructor deputies teaching this class to church members. The class lasts all day, and is very sobering. If anyone attends this class and doesn't question his role in this, probably needs to find a different way to serve. Also, you walk onto the range with an empty gun, then on command, load and shoot 300 rounds in 6 shot groups using several different scenarios. By the end of the day, you will have sore thumbs and sore feet. fwiw
Every pastor had to examine carefully his response for protecting his flock. Many chose to do nothing, many chose to hire offduty LE. And many chose to allow and encourage qualified people in the church to form a security team. Our church chose the latter. It became a somewhat delicate subject, but our pastor took a firm position and, along with a close church member prayerfully decided on the following;
1. Chose 6 mature men who already had their ccp, or were actively pursueing it.
2. Asked each one to commit to getting the required tactical training.
3. Chose a member who is an ex leo, currently active military to lead our team.
4. Announced to the congregation that a team was in place, and if a bg came in the door, that they should get on the floor, and the team would respond.
5. Rotating team members will also be walking around the facility during services with the goal of keeping any issues outside.
Is this a perfect plan?....I don't think there is such a thing. Like a great military leader once said..."A battle plan is perfect..until the first shot is fired."
By the way, our local sherrif supports these teams, and has 3 of his instructor deputies teaching this class to church members. The class lasts all day, and is very sobering. If anyone attends this class and doesn't question his role in this, probably needs to find a different way to serve. Also, you walk onto the range with an empty gun, then on command, load and shoot 300 rounds in 6 shot groups using several different scenarios. By the end of the day, you will have sore thumbs and sore feet. fwiw
Our CST was formed approximately 8 years ago and all but 1 have a background as a LEO and most are also former Military.
This spring we will do additional training/drills with the Medical and Usher groups in our Church as well as local LEA.
This spring we will do additional training/drills with the Medical and Usher groups in our Church as well as local LEA.
Winner winner, chicken dinner.
I'm curious, as I am assuming you are a member of this team...do y'all do any force on force, live-fire training with simunition type rounds? What medical supplies are kept in the church? Do these 6 first-responder type guys carry any medical supplies on their person? What weapons are they carrying? Do they carry extra mags? Has anyone considered having long-guns ready at parts of the church?
Regarding training, how many aggressors do you train for? Just curious on these. I think your answers may help others and possibly yourself be more prepared.
leadslinger972
*Banned*
Thanks for the questions. These are always thought provoking and helpful.
I am by no means an expert on any of this, but I think it would be very beneficial for you and your team to do a FoF exercise in the church with some type of simulated fire. Simunition is great, but is expensive. You could also use the airsoft Glocks which run around $225 for the pistols and then you can get the BBs for super cheap (10,000 BB buckets).
Regarding medical supplies: If you have 6 guys who are armed, I think it would make sense for them to also carry small medical kits with TQs, quick-clot type systems, and training to stop bleeding in appendages and center mass injuries. Something so simple could save a lot of people if anything happened. Also, it'd probably also make sense to have a full medical kit somewhere in the church that the RN or some other professional could leverage if need be in any type of medical situation. I imagine that, coupled with an AED could be very useful, especially if many of the church-goers are elderly.
Regarding medical supplies: If you have 6 guys who are armed, I think it would make sense for them to also carry small medical kits with TQs, quick-clot type systems, and training to stop bleeding in appendages and center mass injuries. Something so simple could save a lot of people if anything happened. Also, it'd probably also make sense to have a full medical kit somewhere in the church that the RN or some other professional could leverage if need be in any type of medical situation. I imagine that, coupled with an AED could be very useful, especially if many of the church-goers are elderly.
At Our church:
Most former Military and LEO with the addition training required by LSP will have adequate handgun training.
Huge medical Kit and additional equipment on hand with Registered Nurses and other qualified personnel to use.
Personnel that know when to call for addition LEO and or Medical Personnel.
Training together with other Church Teams is very important.
We have 1 or more long guns staged but may not have time to get to them as they are not carried in Church.
Should also have a portable radio with the channels necessary to call additional help as needed.
Homeland Security has a good EOP for Churches. Faith Based Organizations Emergency Operations Plan Template.
Last edited:
I agree with being involved instead of being illegal.
We have a team at church comprised mostly of leo, military (active and ex), and long term CCP holders. Some are also medicial professionals. All have extra training including drills on church grounds and all have radios as well as identifiers worn that are know to local pd. It is a work in progress and will always be.
We have a team at church comprised mostly of leo, military (active and ex), and long term CCP holders. Some are also medicial professionals. All have extra training including drills on church grounds and all have radios as well as identifiers worn that are know to local pd. It is a work in progress and will always be.
I go to a small church in the Texas Hill Country. We are 7 miles from the nearest highway and about 15 miles from the nearest town. We are in the country surrounded by ranches.
I asked my Episcopal priest if he thought anyone carried in church and if we should make a formal plan. Without skipping a beat he said he figured about half the men are already carrying and all of the women.
This Thursday the county sheriff's office is holding a 2 hour meeting with area church and school leaders to get everyone started in setting up security plans.
I asked my Episcopal priest if he thought anyone carried in church and if we should make a formal plan. Without skipping a beat he said he figured about half the men are already carrying and all of the women.
This Thursday the county sheriff's office is holding a 2 hour meeting with area church and school leaders to get everyone started in setting up security plans.
I have never gotten ready for church and taken my CCW with me. I HAVE dropped by the church for a meeting and forgot to remove my CCW.
That being said if I felt my family or myself should be concerned about our safety during church services I WOULD CC in my church regardless.
In this situation I would have to go by the adage "I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6".
That being said if I felt my family or myself should be concerned about our safety during church services I WOULD CC in my church regardless.
In this situation I would have to go by the adage "I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6".
"Leave the "hostage situation" up to the professionals!!! You in civilian clothes running around with a gun in church will not look like a good guy to the arriving officers "
I can think of several old Vietnam Veterans, including myself, who can still carry out a cool head shot from 30' without hitting any parishioners. Farther than that it gets dicey, but any attempt would require a lot of consideration and may not be possible. Some of my buddies refuse to touch a firearm ever again, but some still practice and carry concealed just for case.
I can think of several old Vietnam Veterans, including myself, who can still carry out a cool head shot from 30' without hitting any parishioners. Farther than that it gets dicey, but any attempt would require a lot of consideration and may not be possible. Some of my buddies refuse to touch a firearm ever again, but some still practice and carry concealed just for case.
Staff online
-
340six-Global Mod-
Members online
- SouthernInsanity
- Strick8
- dwhaley929
- davidd
- jpso211
- Codyjohn61
- DaggerBlade
- gman3214
- nlognion93
- Steve-0
- SeaZast
- bush_hog
- JR1572
- tallwalker
- BBA
- mikemule
- Matthewk1114
- Xeon64
- Patriot1911
- shabangles
- mike_golf
- 323MAR
- 340six
- Gator 45/70
- bkeaver
- SVT Bansheeman
- Latrag7
- Nolabill
- m.scott55
- Forgotten
- AK shooter
- T-boy
- jerme
- Easyt
- Ranslem9849
- pandabear
- EM696
- Brballistics
- Dredd8
- jcbvh
- bearfutedninja
- Renegade
- cjt0311
- ebert
- mukwah
- navops
- Mel633
- gemihur
- Micahbarcelona
- Bottomlandlabs
