Do signs have the force of law?

The Best online firearms community in Louisiana.

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • nolaradio

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Sep 8, 2012
    2,213
    48
    Parts unknown
    I've always thought that in Louisiana signs prohibiting the carry of firearms at a business technically did not have the force of law behind them. I read somewhere this morning that they do carry the force of law and it referenced this: R.S. 40:1379.3 (n)

    Anyone with an internet law degree care to chime in?
     

    leadslinger972

    *Banned*
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 1, 2017
    983
    16
    St Tammany
    I've always thought that in Louisiana signs prohibiting the carry of firearms at a business technically did not have the force of law behind them. I read somewhere this morning that they do carry the force of law and it referenced this: R.S. 40:1379.3 (n)

    Anyone with an internet law degree care to chime in?

    Louisiana does not have 30.06 signs like Texas.

    Are you specifically asking about "No Guns" signs or the signage that prohibits certain types of carry?
     

    nolaradio

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Sep 8, 2012
    2,213
    48
    Parts unknown
    Louisiana does not have 30.06 signs like Texas.

    Are you specifically asking about "No Guns" signs or the signage that prohibits certain types of carry?

    I suppose both types of signs.

    For instance, I know the JR Food Mart in Abita Springs has a sign that says no firearms with the picture of a pistol in a red circle crossed out. That's it. Doesn't reference any law or no other wording. Would someone be breaking the law, as written, by entering with a firearm either concealed or open? I know that if you went in openly carrying the clerk would most likely tell you something and ask that you leave. At that point you would have to leave or be considered trespassing.

    I guess what I'm getting at is that if that situation was to happen and after I left the clerk called the police on me, would I be arrested for carrying inside the business even though I left when asked to.

    *** edit ***

    Seems to me that if the signs here in Louisiana had the force of law, the signs would have to meet specifications spelled out in the law like Texas does.
     
    Last edited:

    leadslinger972

    *Banned*
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 1, 2017
    983
    16
    St Tammany
    I suppose both types of signs.

    For instance, I know the JR Food Mart in Abita Springs has a sign that says no firearms with the picture of a pistol in a red circle crossed out. That's it. Doesn't reference any law or no other wording. Would someone be breaking the law, as written, by entering with a firearm either concealed or open? I know that if you went in openly carrying the clerk would most likely tell you something and ask that you leave. At that point you would have to leave or be considered trespassing.

    I guess what I'm getting at is that if that situation was to happen and after I left the clerk called the police on me, would I be arrested for carrying inside the business even though I left when asked to.

    *** edit ***

    Seems to me that if the signs here in Louisiana had the force of law, the signs would have to meet specifications spelled out in the law like Texas does.

    No firearms signs do not hold any weight unless you are asked to leave the premises and refused. You would then be arrested for trespassing.

    I'm curious where you read that those signs have any enforcement behind them.

    Edit - This is strictly speaking of non-prohibited locations that are not expressly outlined in the law.
     

    rcm192

    Sic semper tyrannis
    Staff member
    Rating - 100%
    111   0   0
    May 31, 2010
    6,207
    63
    New Orleans area
    Im pretty sure that you can only be charged with trespassing. But I have been wrong before.
     

    AustinBR

    Make your own luck
    Staff member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Oct 22, 2012
    10,792
    113
    I suppose both types of signs.

    For instance, I know the JR Food Mart in Abita Springs has a sign that says no firearms with the picture of a pistol in a red circle crossed out. That's it. Doesn't reference any law or no other wording. Would someone be breaking the law, as written, by entering with a firearm either concealed or open? I know that if you went in openly carrying the clerk would most likely tell you something and ask that you leave. At that point you would have to leave or be considered trespassing.

    I guess what I'm getting at is that if that situation was to happen and after I left the clerk called the police on me, would I be arrested for carrying inside the business even though I left when asked to.

    *** edit ***

    Seems to me that if the signs here in Louisiana had the force of law, the signs would have to meet specifications spelled out in the law like Texas does.

    Most store clerks don't even have the balls to say something to people being stupid in the store anyway...add a gun to the mix and I can't see them saying anything lol. Now, they may call the cops on you.
     

    nolaradio

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Sep 8, 2012
    2,213
    48
    Parts unknown
    No firearms signs do not hold any weight unless you are asked to leave the premises and refused. You would then be arrested for trespassing.

    I'm curious where you read that those signs have any enforcement behind them.

    Edit - This is strictly speaking of non-prohibited locations that are not expressly outlined in the law.


    Here: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/louisiana.pdf

    Page 7 at the bottom.

    I noticed it while looking up the laws for a few other states I will be traveling through in April.
     

    leadslinger972

    *Banned*
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 1, 2017
    983
    16
    St Tammany
    Here: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/louisiana.pdf

    Page 7 at the bottom.

    I noticed it while looking up the laws for a few other states I will be traveling through in April.

    1. Handgunlaw.us is a good reference, but please use the actual state government legislation to look for laws.
    2. Consult an attorney if you are unsure about a particular statute.

    The statute reads:

    [FONT=&quot]O. The provisions of Subsection N of this Section shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section. No individual to whom a concealed handgun permit is issued may carry such concealed handgun into the private residence of another without first receiving the consent of that person.[/FONT]

    Define how the property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian is to prohibit or restrict access to persons possessing a concealed handgun.

    Since nothing is defined, I can only assume verbal communication is the only way I would know that the property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian wishes to prohibit or restrict access.

    "I didn't see any signs walking in."
     

    nolaradio

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Sep 8, 2012
    2,213
    48
    Parts unknown
    That's what was confusing me. Handgunlaw.us answers the question, "Do *No Gun Signs* Have the Force of Law?" with a simple yes, then actually quotes subsection O right beneath the question. Yet that subsection does not address signage.

    I agree with you, I didn't see any signs.
     

    charlie12

    Not a Fed.
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Apr 21, 2008
    8,518
    63
    Pride
    I wear reading glasses and when I'm walking around I don't wear them.
     

    JoeLiberty

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Oct 1, 2014
    420
    16
    United States
    There is a list of places you cannot carry in subsection N, and none of those items are "businesses with a no gun sign."

    They can prohibit you, but the sign is not creating a legal gun free zone like in TX.

    For example, if they had metal detectors on the doors and decided to prohibit people who were actually carrying, they could do that legally (assuming putting metal detectors up is legal, I've never seen it). Or if they come to know you are carrying and decide to ask you to leave on that basis, that is also their right. You must leave immediately. If you don't you are trespassing.

    But I know of no occasion where a carrier has gotten in trouble for walking past some stickers on a door in LA. They can ask you to leave or not let you in but the sign does not create a statutorily prohibited location.
     

    Blue Diamond

    sportsman
    Premium Member
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Apr 12, 2014
    944
    16
    Metairie, La.
    No firearms signs do not hold any weight unless you are asked to leave the premises and refused. You would then be arrested for trespassing.

    I'm curious where you read that those signs have any enforcement behind them.

    Edit - This is strictly speaking of non-prohibited locations that are not expressly outlined in the law.

    Wrong. Those having a permit must have forgot their training. You would be charged with carrying in a prohibited place. It is very specific and should be honored. You can wine about it like a snowflake but the laws are the law and you should honor it and keep yourself informed. You might also be charged with trsspassing.
     

    leadslinger972

    *Banned*
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 1, 2017
    983
    16
    St Tammany
    Wrong. Those having a permit must have forgot their training. You would be charged with carrying in a prohibited place. It is very specific and should be honored. You can wine about it like a snowflake but the laws are the law and you should honor it and keep yourself informed. You might also be charged with trsspassing.

    Please, tell me how a sign, that went unnoticed, holds any weight of the law.

    How would know the owner/lessee is prohibiting me?

    Edit -

    I'm open to hearing the opinions of Louisiana attorneys. The statute does not define how the property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian is to prohibit or restrict access to persons possessing a concealed handgun. It just says that the provisions of that subsection do not prevent them from doing so.

    As an example, Whole Food of Metairie used to have their no guns sticker on the side glass. When the automatic doors would open, the stickers on the automatic door would covered the no guns sticker.

    Texas 30.06 signs must be visible at the entrance and comply with a list of items including: Text Height, Language (English and Spanish), and Block Lettering.
     
    Last edited:

    AustinBR

    Make your own luck
    Staff member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Oct 22, 2012
    10,792
    113
    Wrong. Those having a permit must have forgot their training. You would be charged with carrying in a prohibited place. It is very specific and should be honored. You can wine about it like a snowflake but the laws are the law and you should honor it and keep yourself informed. You might also be charged with trsspassing.

    Can you supply the law that supports your opinion? Also, where did you go to get your permit that informed you of what you are stating?

    Edit to add: Before telling people they are "whining about laws like a snowflake" and that they "should honor [the law] and keep [themselves] informed," I would urge you to read the actual law instead of solely relying upon the word and/or opinion of one singular person teaching a class.
     

    charlie12

    Not a Fed.
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Apr 21, 2008
    8,518
    63
    Pride
    Back about 10 years ago at Circle K they had a sign on bottom of the window by the door with stuff they didn't want. One thing was no guns and it was the statue for Tennessee and the store was in Walker
     

    AustinBR

    Make your own luck
    Staff member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Oct 22, 2012
    10,792
    113
    Back about 10 years ago at Circle K they had a sign on bottom of the window by the door with stuff they didn't want. One thing was no guns and it was the statue for Tennessee and the store was in Walker

    Well that's weird lol. I never see the signs. Most of the time they are smaller than a sticky note and in odd places.
     

    Blue Diamond

    sportsman
    Premium Member
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Apr 12, 2014
    944
    16
    Metairie, La.
    Please, tell me how a sign, that went unnoticed, holds any weight of the law.

    How would know the owner/lessee is prohibiting me?

    Edit -

    I'm open to hearing the opinions of Louisiana attorneys. The statute does not define how the property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian is to prohibit or restrict access to persons possessing a concealed handgun. It just says that the provisions of that subsection do not prevent them from doing so.

    As an example, Whole Food of Metairie used to have their no guns sticker on the side glass. When the automatic doors would open, the stickers on the automatic door would covered the no guns sticker.

    Texas 30.06 signs must be visible at the entrance and comply with a list of items including: Text Height, Language (English and Spanish), and Block Lettering.

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Ask any judge. And it seems there are many ignorant people carrying firearms.
     

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    195,230
    Messages
    1,546,152
    Members
    29,172
    Latest member
    ksgunner82
    Top Bottom