Barrel Linings....

sportsbud · Mar 2, 2018

Hey guys, it's time to start one of those threads that ends friendships...

I have been pondering the benefits of all these new types of barrel linings...

In the last couple years I have started to see more and more non-chrome lined AR-15 (and AR-10) barrels. I seen terms such of Nitrided, Melonited etc....

In my quick research it seems that all of these methods harden the surface of the bore (and outside) and make the last few microns super hard. To the point that it is said that a nitrided barrel has a longer barrel life than chrome-lined. (it can also be done to SS as well)

It is also said that since when you chrome-line a barrel you must take a couple-thousands of material off for the chrome and that chrome lining is a chemical process that is imperfect that the nitrided barrels can be more accurate.

Now the thing that worries me is corrosion resistance... The swamps of LA are not friendly to exposed steel... I can find little evidence of the corrosion resistance of nitride...

All of the information I have seen has just said that is is better than bare steel but that's it... Anyone have any input on this?

oppsImissed · Mar 2, 2018

I thought about this last night. Was web surfing looking for a deal on a barrel. One manufacturer states that they no longer offer a chrome lined 5.56 barrel. Supposedly chrome was only used due to corrosive ammo. And there is no corrosive 5.56 currently on the market. The do offer chrome for their 7.62x39 barrels though.

sportsbud · Mar 2, 2018

oppsImissed said:
I thought about this last night. Was web surfing looking for a deal on a barrel. One manufacturer states that they no longer offer a chrome lined 5.56 barrel. Supposedly chrome was only used due to corrosive ammo. And there is no corrosive 5.56 currently on the market. The do offer chrome for their 7.62x39 barrels though.

I understand but don't at the same time... I wish there was some more info on the corrosion resistance... I saw somewhere a barrel life vs accuracy test and they found the nitrided barrels to have better accuracy and better longevity than chrome lining... But still does not answer the corrosion-resistance question...

leadslinger972 · Mar 2, 2018

Nitriding is embedded into the surface of the steel.
Chrome lining is electroplating chromium on the steel surface.

One method deposits foreign material into the steel.
The other method deposits a foreign material onto the steel.

They both last longer than most people will require.

Nitriding IS a more cost effective solution, so you see that more often today.

DaSouthernYankee · Mar 2, 2018

There is no need to worry about anything that has been through a furretic nitrocarbonization (melonite, tinifer, nitride) process. The only thing to look for is to make sure the barrel and barrel extension are done before they are assebeled. Because of how the process works if you are treating joined pieces you can get residue between them that will cause corrrosion (any quality barrel makes knows that these days) Aside from that it is the most corrosion resistant finish I know of.

Search around for rust tests on glock slides. I know there was an issue of rust a long while back and i have no idea why. But, if properly done, any metal that can be treated will be as close rust proof as we can get these days with no outside help needed (like oil, etc.)

And yes it is better than chrome lining. Not that chrome is bad, but it is old tech. While chrome is very hard a d rust resistant, nitride metals are harder (almost like diamond, just a few points below on the Rockwell scale) and even better on the rust resistancs because it coats the ebtire barrel.

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mickey · Mar 2, 2018

I have 2 bolt actions that have been melonited and one that was nitrided.
It makes them slick and hardens the surfaces.

I have a buddy that have tried doing melonite on 6mm match rifle barrels.
Did not make them last any longer. Firecracking ate them at the same rate.
In my opinion, save the money you would spend on coating the barrel and put that towards buying a spare.

oppsImissed · Mar 2, 2018

mickey said:
I have 2 bolt actions that have been melonited and one that was nitrided.
It makes them slick and hardens the surfaces.

I have a buddy that have tried doing melonite on 6mm match rifle barrels.
Did not make them last any longer. Firecracking ate them at the same rate.
In my opinion, save the money you would spend on coating the barrel and put that towards buying a spare.

Mickey, so basically your saying a cheaper, non treated barrel is fine? Shoot it till it's shot out? I'm fine with that. Just wanted clarity.

SpeedRacer · Mar 2, 2018

I'm sure Mickey and his people (precision shooters) consider a barrel "shot out" waaaaaaaay before the average AR user. They may toss a barrel because it's shooting 1.5MOA instead of .75MOA. :P

ANY AR barrel, I don't care what coating, will last longer than 99% of people will shoot it. A good barrel can go 20-30K+ rounds. Even if a cheap barrel only lasts 10K rounds, most people don't shoot anywhere near that.

There are the accuracy and corrosion resistance aspects to consider. Metal treatments are good. Nitride performs as good or better than chrome lining even though it's cheaper. Bottom line is pick a quality barrel from a reputable manufacturer and don't get too hung up on the coating. Don't drop it in the swamp regardless.

mickey · Mar 2, 2018

oppsImissed said:
Mickey, so basically your saying a cheaper, non treated barrel is fine? Shoot it till it's shot out? I'm fine with that. Just wanted clarity.

I’m saying the cost to do the melonite treatment on a barrel is around $150. Before I would spend $150 on coating a barrel, I would buy a spare barrel. Also if I remember correctly, you will have a decent FPS loss too.

Chrome lined are supposed to sustain high rates of Fire better than non lined.
Stainless barrels are accurate, don’t rust(for the most part), and hold up well. Although I did kill one of those in 26* at around the 3500 round count on an AR. It went from .5-.75 moa at 100y to 4inches at 100y like a light switch flipped.

mickey · Mar 2, 2018

SpeedRacer said:
I'm sure Mickey and his people (precision shooters) consider a barrel "shot out" waaaaaaaay before the average AR user. They may toss a barrel because it's shooting 1.5MOA instead of .75MOA. :P

ANY AR barrel, I don't care what coating, will last longer than 99% of people will shoot it. A good barrel can go 20-30K+ rounds. Even if a cheap barrel only lasts 10K rounds, most people don't shoot anywhere near that.

^^^^^^
What he said.
I cannot agree with you more. Most people will never shoot a barrel out.

My 6mm match rifle barrels will go usually around 2k rounds. Within that time the lands can move .060 - .080.
If you shoot enough, it’s easy to know when they are starting to go.

mickey · Mar 2, 2018

SpeedRacer said:
because it's shooting 1.5MOA instead of .75MOA. :P

Oh, and yeah. If it’s shooting .75 MOA, get out the action wrench and barrel vice cuz that sucker is coming off.
:thumbsup:

DaSouthernYankee · Mar 2, 2018

mickey said:
Oh, and yeah. If it’s shooting .75 MOA, get out the action wrench and barrel vice cuz that sucker is coming off.

If you have an ar15 barrel shooting .75 moa and its getting tossed, I will be glad to take it off your hands

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sportsbud · Mar 2, 2018

I am curious about the corrosion resistance as when I shoot my AR's I don't always clean right away. Also being an emerging tech I want to see the benefits and detractors.

mickey · Mar 3, 2018

DaSouthernYankee said:
If you have an ar15 barrel shooting .75 moa and its getting tossed, I will be glad to take it off your hands

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lol
Was referring to my bolt guns.
I don’t shoot my gassers enough any more to know what their group sizes are.

mickey · Mar 3, 2018

sportsbud said:
I am curious about the corrosion resistance as when I shoot my AR's I don't always clean right away. Also being an emerging tech I want to see the benefits and detractors.

Not sure where you are going with that one.
Just because a barrel was put away without being cleaned does not mean it will corrode the bore.
If you were using corrosive ammo in it, or storing it in a damp environment, you would have something to worry about.

sportsbud · Mar 3, 2018

mickey said:
Not sure where you are going with that one.
Just because a barrel was put away without being cleaned does not mean it will corrode the bore.
If you were using corrosive ammo in it, or storing it in a damp environment, you would have something to worry about.

Im just curious as I can carry around my rifle with a chrome lined bore knowing that it's not gonna rust... I just want to know apples to apples how well the nitrided one is going to resist rust when compared to a chrome bore... And the only corrosive ammo I shoot is in my Mausers.

rcm192 · Mar 3, 2018

sportsbud said:
Im just curious as I can carry around my rifle with a chrome lined bore knowing that it's not gonna rust... I just want to know apples to apples how well the nitrided one is going to resist rust when compared to a chrome bore... And the only corrosive ammo I shoot is in my Mausers.

http://faxonfirearms.com/blog/frequenty-asked-questions-nitride-vs-chrome-lined/

991GT3 · Mar 8, 2018

The epsilon layer (top layer) of ferritic nitrocarburization has better corrosion resistance than hexavalent chrome.

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