How much interest is there for a modern, premium indoor range on the Westbank?

drenfro78 · May 3, 2018

Sorry if this is the wrong spot, but I wanted to put this up for Westbank NOLA shooters on here. There isn’t much in the way of a modern, premium shooting facility on the Westbank of the NOLA metro area. Someplace like the St. Bernard indoor shooting facility or that nice place in Slidell. I have begun research into what it would take to make this a reality, but I need to judge interest before I go all in to get this going. I have a strong idea of what I would want in a place like this but value questions and input from y’all.

Some basic ideas I had would be to have 15-20 stalls 30-50 yards long with a bullet trap system that could handle up to at least .308 so that ar and other sporting rifles could be used. Retail space (FFL) to sell and rent as well as transfer firearms. Also have a good selection of accessories and parts.

I have a good ballpark of the costs with such an endeavor. I have worked in retail management for over 15 years, the last 5 dealing in part with shooting sports.

I am am specifically wondering what y’all would be willing to pay as far as membership dues, daily fees, and any specific services that you feel are a must have.

noob · May 3, 2018

I would love a nice range on the Westbank but at what cost is the question? Avondale has thier *premium* members only club that many of us didn’t join due to membership costs, bayoudragon allows rifles and lets you shoot rifle calibers (though the ventilation isn’t great), and Gretna gun has an indoor range at a fair price. So it would be hard to be competitive if the prices would be high. But if you can keep it around shooters club prices, I would stop by every other week or so.

Mxav · May 3, 2018

noob said:
But if you can keep it around shooters club prices, I would stop by every other week or so.

X2

I'd love a nice shotgun room or a place to dial in a rifle without going to Bayoudragon.

Request Dust Off · May 3, 2018

drenfro78 said:
Some basic ideas I had would be to have 15-20 stalls 30-50 yards long with a bullet trap system that could handle up to at least .308 so that ar and other sporting rifles could be used. Retail space (FFL) to sell and rent as well as transfer firearms. Also have a good selection of accessories and parts.

I am am specifically wondering what y’all would be willing to pay as far as membership dues, daily fees, and any specific services that you feel are a must have.

In my experience many people want a local range. You can substitute range with whatever. The minute the wallet needs to come out you lose 90% of them. Cheapskates & EPA type of stuff will be a hurdle.

You would have to have a decent range fee. I pay $10.00 a lane @ Bayou Dragon as I have a lifetime membership. That can go away any minute. I made sure I got my moneys worth out of it early on. Non-Members pay $20.00 a lane. Two shooters can share a lane all day. Big Caliber @ 50 yards.

For me unless you can accommodate .30 cal @ 50 yards you are limiting yourself. Not that I wouldn't go, but man it is nice to bring a .270 or .30-06 to Bayou Dragon and sort it out with 50 yds. I would also look at accommodating air rifles and youth leagues.

The other thing for me with ranges in general is:
I can go shoot in a match there and not join.
If I am a member matches are just a nuisance if I am not interested in that match.
So that takes some balancing.

Don't need a lot of service, besides a little over watch from the RO. Not getting shot is a plus. Most are good to go but you get the occasional standout.

I want to keep my brass. Decent lighting, ventilation, yard marking, sound dampening. Targets that don't bounce all over. A place to set some guns down. Nothing extravagant.

drenfro78 · May 3, 2018

Thanks for the input. IN a perfect world I would have the lanes at 50 yards and allow rifles up to a certain caliber. Modern bullet traps can accommodate *large* rifle calibers some up to 50 bmg. Brass would be a non issue, take it or leave it, it’s your choice. I envision something close to the new Jefferson Gun Outlet range without all the rifle restrictions. A shotgun area was something I was thinking about yesterday after talking to a close friend. Pricing is where it all hinges. Flate rate per hour, progressive rates the longer you stay past the first hour, and memberships.

leadslinger972 · May 3, 2018

To be competitive, you would need to offer something other indoor ranges do not... The ability to move.

Many indoor ranges only allow pistols, and even then, they only allow you to shoot from the ready. There are only two indoor ranges that allow holster work in the Greater New Orleans areas, one in Baton Rouge and one in Arabi. I drive an hour just to be able to do pistol work from concealment. Once upon a time they allowed rifles, but have relegated rifle shooting from the bench only, since stupid people kept shooting the walls, ceiling, and track system.

Having tons of lanes is great if you can keep them full. You see Honey Island packed, because it's $6 for the entire day, but you won't find many indoor ranges overflowing, because of cost. FRC is only $20/day for non-members, and in my opinion, they have the nicest indoor range in Louisiana (or at least until Red River is built).

You are going to have to cater to more than just the average fudd wanting to shoot his new gun show special sniper rifle indoors.

Request Dust Off · May 3, 2018

leadslinger972 said:
To be competitive, you would need to offer something other indoor ranges do not... The ability to move.

There are only two indoor ranges that allow holster work in the Greater New Orleans area, one in Baton Rouge and one in Arabi

Bayou Dragon has a room for pistol shooting, full auto, shotgun. No rifle bigger than .22LR. Movement and drawing is allowed.

I have been to Bayou dragon many times and I don't get the negativity some have towards it.

drenfro78 · May 3, 2018

leadslinger972 said:
To be competitive, you would need to offer something other indoor ranges do not... The ability to move.

Many indoor ranges only allow pistols, and even then, they only allow you to shoot from the ready. There are only two indoor ranges that allow holster work in the Greater New Orleans areas, one in Baton Rouge and one in Arabi. I drive an hour just to be able to do pistol work from concealment. Once upon a time they allowed rifles, but have relegated rifle shooting from the bench only, since stupid people kept shooting the walls, ceiling, and track system.

Having tons of lanes is great if you can keep them full. You see Honey Island packed, because it's $6 for the entire day, but you won't find many indoor ranges overflowing, because of cost. FRC is only $20/day for non-members, and in my opinion, they have the nicest indoor range in Louisiana (or at least until Red River is built).

You are going to have to cater to more than just the average fudd wanting to shoot his new gun show special sniper rifle indoors.

I have that in mind as well. Being able to practice “real world” tactics is a plus. But it would have to be a separate area not in the regular lanes, same as with shotgun work. I hate not being able to at least draw from a holster when shooting, let alone draw from concealment. I love going to Honey Island as well. Unless it’s flooded out, or full. Their days of operation are restrictive as well, but man is it cheap.

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drenfro78 · May 3, 2018

You are going to have to cater to more than just the average fudd wanting to shoot his new gun show special sniper rifle indoors.[/QUOTE]

I would cater to as many different people as possible. One of the negative aspects of shooting is the attitude some people take to new shooters, or different people from different backgrounds. I saw it all the time as a firearms seller. I had tons of customers who complained about the service they received at some gun shops and ranges. I feel the more people that can be turned on to and properly educated about shooting sports and exposed to why we cherish the 2A the better.

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leadslinger972 · May 3, 2018

drenfro78 said:
I have that in mind as well. Being able to practice *real world* tactics is a plus. But it would have to be a separate area not in the regular lanes, same as with shotgun work. I hate not being able to at least draw from a holster when shooting, let alone draw from concealment. I love going to Honey Island as well. Unless it’s flooded out, or full. Their days of operation are restrictive as well, but man is it cheap.

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Why not in the regular lanes? FRC does it...

I have been approved by their RSO's, as their rules state, and I make sure to ask before every range session, because they have different RSO's every now and then. I'm not concerned with me. I'm concerned with everyone else.

Once upon a time, I was in FRC testing out a new belt rig and holster (DAA belt, ghost pouches, SCK holster). I ran through a few bill drills and reload drills faster than it took for the guy next to me to get his AR pistol out of the bag. When he finally did, I was reloading magazines. I backed up and saw him attempting to sight in his new fancy AR pistol. The very first round goes into the ceiling. HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN!?!?! The RSO comes in and talks to him, warning him that if it happens again, he will be asked to leave. BOOM, second round into the ceiling. He was asked to leave.

Vet your customers before allowing them to do cool guy ****.

drenfro78 said:
I would cater to as many different people as possible. One of the negative aspects of shooting is the attitude some people take to new shooters, or different people from different backgrounds. I saw it all the time as a firearms seller. I had tons of customers who complained about the service they received at some gun shops and ranges. I feel the more people that can be turned on to and properly educated about shooting sports and exposed to why we cherish the 2A the better.

The issue isn't how new shooters are treated. It's how people who think they know what they are doing are treated. As a "firearms seller" you would know how many times people KNOW there gun is unloaded, and it isn't. Do stupid stuff and you will get treated like you're stupid.

I agree with you about education, but if I see someone hopelessly blasting over a berm, I'm calling cease fire and telling him how I feel.

mike84z28 · May 3, 2018

Not sure how far you have dived into building an indoor range as far as cost is concerned, but that may be eye opening for you. I have seen some cost estimates for NICE facilities (not including property) and they were extremely high. Factor in overhead, competent staff, insurance, security systems and I can completely understand why range fees are high at newer facilities.

leadslinger972 · May 3, 2018

mike84z28 said:
Not sure how far you have dived into building an indoor range as far as cost is concerned, but that may be eye opening for you. I have seen some cost estimates for NICE facilities (not including property) and they were extremely high. Factor in overhead, competent staff, insurance, security systems and I can completely understand why range fees are high at newer facilities.

The space requirements alone are enough to discourage ranges being opened in many areas. A range in St. Tammany would have to be North of Folsom, because there is no land available at a reasonable cost. IIRC, the last venture into an indoor range in St. Tammany was estimated at $5M+.

AustinBR · May 3, 2018

From what I understand, a decent HVAC system capable of scrubbing the air to decently safe levels costs $2.5M+

Ranges don't make money from people paying range fees. They make money from classes, firearm sales, and etc. Another set of problems are space constraints:
Having 20 lanes @ $20 = 400 dollars if all lanes are full from range fees. But then the lanes are full and no one else can shoot until someone leaves.
Advertising to get all 20 lanes full costs a lot.

leadslinger972 · May 3, 2018

AustinBR said:
From what I understand, a decent HVAC system capable of scrubbing the air to decently safe levels costs $2.5M+

Ranges don't make money from people paying range fees. They make money from classes, firearm sales, and etc. Another set of problems are space constraints:
Having 20 lanes @ $20 = 400 dollars if all lanes are full from range fees. But then the lanes are full and no one else can shoot until someone leaves.
Advertising to get all 20 lanes full costs a lot.

This.

Ranges like FRC make money from utilizing the shoot house, retail sales, and firearms classes.

AustinBR · May 3, 2018

leadslinger972 said:
This.

Ranges like FRC make money from utilizing the shoot house, retail sales, and firearms classes.

Just from some quick basic math, it looks like a loan on the startup costs alone would cost about 360k per year. In order to cover that, you need to generate around $1000 a day after taxes. At a $20 range fee, that is around 50 shooters every single day, 365 days a year. That doesn't take into account things like paying staff members, utilities, insurance, permits, and etc.

I'd love to open a range, but the business model just seems very constrained due to the sheer capital outlay needed upfront plus the fact that a vast majority of the people who will be potential customers dont't like paying more than $15 to shoot.

bigtattoo79 · May 3, 2018

I was told to build a nice indoor range turn key to expect to pay $600k per lane. I never looked into it personally but if that’s true it’s gonna be hard to make money.

leadslinger972 · May 3, 2018

bigtattoo79 said:
I was told to build a nice indoor range turn key to expect to pay $600k per lane. I never looked into it personally but if that’s true it’s gonna be hard to make money.

The money is made by getting big name instructors to come teach classes, teaching classes with your own in house instructor, firearms sales, and retail sales.

There is a reason most gun ranges are extremely expensive on the retail side. The make a lot off of the guy who rents a Glock then wants one immediately and pays full retail.

bigtattoo79 · May 3, 2018

leadslinger972 said:
The money is made by getting big name instructors to come teach classes, teaching classes with your own in house instructor, firearms sales, and retail sales.

There is a reason most gun ranges are extremely expensive on the retail side. The make a lot off of the guy who rents a Glock then wants one immediately and pays full retail.

Oh I agree 100%. I just don’t see the market to support it on the westbank.

drenfro78 · May 3, 2018

mike84z28 said:
Not sure how far you have dived into building an indoor range as far as cost is concerned, but that may be eye opening for you. I have seen some cost estimates for NICE facilities (not including property) and they were extremely high. Factor in overhead, competent staff, insurance, security systems and I can completely understand why range fees are high at newer facilities.

I have been doing a lot of research on costs. Low 7 digits for something large and modern. I’m not deluding myself on that.

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drenfro78 · May 3, 2018

bigtattoo79 said:
Oh I agree 100%. I just don’t see the market to support it on the westbank.

Considering the choices for ranges and retail options available on the westbank, I think the right set up could make a good bit of money. I know exactly what both Academy and Dick’s generates in sales from firearms and ammo. I can roughly estimate what other shops make. I think there is a good bit of money to be made.

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How much interest is there for a modern, premium indoor range on the Westbank?

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