Signs and the weight of law AGAIN!

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  • Troedoff

    *Banned*
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    Oct 18, 2014
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    Prairieville
    After writing the State Police CHP office, and not wanting to revive a 21 page post , and against my better judgement. I received an email back from State Police today. So all of the speculation can end.

    Subsection N, of LRS40:1379.3 clearly states where you cannot carry. Directly following that, Subsection O, Says the provisions of subsection N shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access to those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this section.

    According to the Concealed Handgun Permit section, this means that if a property owner has posted a sign, regardless of size or literature, the exact reply by the State was

    "If a business has a sign prohibiting firearms, it does carry weight, and all carrying is considered illegal."

    So by that language, Subsection O, clearly gives a property owner, lessee, or lawful custodian the right, and weight of the law, to say you cannot carry in his/her place of business/property. It does not define how they must convey this intent, like the Texas law does. If there is a sign, it is a no go legally.

    Anyone wishing to verify the validity of this, and look at the email is welcome to PM me, and we can make arrangements.
     

    JBP55

    La. CHP Instructor #409
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    This should be Common Knowledge among CHP Holders in Louisiana because it is normally covered in the Louisiana CHP Class.
     

    Troedoff

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    and, the consensus coming out of that thread was that signs, do not carry weight of law. Which is in fact according to the State Police CHP division wrong. I am not here for the argument, and redacted all statements made by myself in that post.The nonsense that sometimes comes from this message board is surprising. There are many here that seem to be here only for the argument, and do not care about the validity of said information at all.
     

    themcfarland

    tactical hangover
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    Dec 6, 2008
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    Destrehan
    I would have argued against the signs carrying weight, .. thanks for the follow up.. Although, I will not likely change my behavior.
     

    leadslinger972

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    Nov 1, 2017
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    St Tammany
    and, the consensus coming out of that thread was that signs, do not carry weight of law. Which is in fact according to the State Police CHP division wrong. I am not here for the argument, and redacted all statements made by myself in that post.The nonsense that sometimes comes from this message board is surprising. There are many here that seem to be here only for the argument, and do not care about the validity of said information at all.

    Without case law, it's a tossup. Wanna be the first to play ball?
     

    charlie12

    Not a Fed.
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    Apr 21, 2008
    8,518
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    Pride
    After writing the State Police CHP office, and not wanting to revive a 21 page post , and against my better judgement. I received an email back from State Police today. So all of the speculation can end.

    Subsection N, of LRS40:1379.3 clearly states where you cannot carry. Directly following that, Subsection O, Says the provisions of subsection N shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access to those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this section.

    According to the Concealed Handgun Permit section, this means that if a property owner has posted a sign, regardless of size or literature, the exact reply by the State was

    "If a business has a sign prohibiting firearms, it does carry weight, and all carrying is considered illegal."

    So by that language, Subsection O, clearly gives a property owner, lessee, or lawful custodian the right, and weight of the law, to say you cannot carry in his/her place of business/property. It does not define how they must convey this intent, like the Texas law does. If there is a sign, it is a no go legally.

    Anyone wishing to verify the validity of this, and look at the email is welcome to PM me, and we can make arrangements.

    Did anyone sign that email?
     

    Forgotten

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    Aug 30, 2016
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    Lafayette, LA
    In our current politically correct environment wouldn't the sign only ban black semi-auto pistols. It seems the red circle with a line through it only discriminated on the black ones. So would a stainless revolver slide thru the cracks. :dunno:
     

    bigtattoo79

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    Sep 12, 2009
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    The State Police CHP division also told me I couldn’t carry in a bank because it was a Federal building. I explained to that person that my bank was not owned by the Feds only insured by the Feds. I spoke to 3 different people before getting a supervisor to say it was legal but *he advised* me not to carry in my bank......
     

    Gator 45/70

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    In our current politically correct environment wouldn't the sign only ban black semi-auto pistols. It seems the red circle with a line through it only discriminated on the black ones. So would a stainless revolver slide thru the cracks. :dunno:

    Hahaha, That law only applys too the liberal crap holes along the river, The rest of Louisiana laughs at em'
     

    leadslinger972

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    Nov 1, 2017
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    St Tammany
    The State Police CHP division also told me I couldn’t carry in a bank because it was a Federal building. I explained to that person that my bank was not owned by the Feds only insured by the Feds. I spoke to 3 different people before getting a supervisor to say it was legal but *he advised* me not to carry in my bank......

    In general, the CHP division is a good place to start. However, seeking legal advice from a phone call to the CHP division is not best practice.
     

    leadslinger972

    *Banned*
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    Nov 1, 2017
    983
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    St Tammany
    This should be Common Knowledge among CHP Holders in Louisiana because it is normally covered in the Louisiana CHP Class.

    Should they? The law itself is not concise, nor is it precise.

    [FONT=&amp]N. No concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:[/FONT][FONT=&amp] (1) A law enforcement office, station, or building.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp] (2) A detention facility, prison, or jail.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp] (3) A courthouse or courtroom, provided that a judge may carry such a weapon in his own courtroom.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp] (4) A polling place.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp] (5) A meeting place of the governing authority of a political subdivision.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp] (6) The state capitol building.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp] (7) Any portion of an airport facility where the carrying of firearms is prohibited under federal law, except that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, if the firearm is encased for shipment, for the purpose of checking such firearm as lawful baggage.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp] (8) Any church, synagogue, mosque, or other similar place of worship, eligible for qualification as a tax-exempt organization under 26 U.S.C. 501, except as provided for in Subsection U of this Section.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp] (9) A parade or demonstration for which a permit is issued by a governmental entity.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp] (10) Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp] (11) Any school, school campus, or school bus as defined in R.S. 14:95.6.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp] O. The provisions of Subsection N of this Section shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section. No individual to whom a concealed handgun permit is issued may carry such concealed handgun into the private residence of another without first receiving the consent of that person.[/FONT]

    I've bolded the part that people have a discrepancy with. While the provisions of subsection N shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access, it does not define how they can prohibit or restrict said persons.

    It's not cut and dry, nor is there case law to support EITHER argument.
     

    JBP55

    La. CHP Instructor #409
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    I always recommend talking to an Attorney if you need legal advice. A real Attorney rather than A Jailhouse Attorney or Want to be Attorney.
     

    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
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    Dec 28, 2015
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    Baton Rouge, LA
    After writing the State Police CHP office, and not wanting to revive a 21 page post , and against my better judgement. I received an email back from State Police today. So all of the speculation can end.

    Subsection N, of LRS40:1379.3 clearly states where you cannot carry. Directly following that, Subsection O, Says the provisions of subsection N shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access to those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this section.

    According to the Concealed Handgun Permit section, this means that if a property owner has posted a sign, regardless of size or literature, the exact reply by the State was

    "If a business has a sign prohibiting firearms, it does carry weight, and all carrying is considered illegal."

    So by that language, Subsection O, clearly gives a property owner, lessee, or lawful custodian the right, and weight of the law, to say you cannot carry in his/her place of business/property. It does not define how they must convey this intent, like the Texas law does. If there is a sign, it is a no go legally.

    Anyone wishing to verify the validity of this, and look at the email is welcome to PM me, and we can make arrangements.

    The police are going to err on the side of caution. It's safer for them to tell you that you can't do something legal than it is to tell you that you can do something illegal. Consider the reply you received and think about this hypothetical situation. A business has a sign stating firearms are not permitted in the business. The sign is behind the counter and cannot be seen until you walk up to the counter. They have met the requirements you mention. You walk in the store with a concealed handgun. Because you have not yet walked to the counter, you cannot see the sign. Is that illegal carrying?
     

    Barry J

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    Dec 5, 2011
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    Thibodaux
    The police are going to err on the side of caution. It's safer for them to tell you that you can't do something legal than it is to tell you that you can do something illegal. Consider the reply you received and think about this hypothetical situation. A business has a sign stating firearms are not permitted in the business. The sign is behind the counter and cannot be seen until you walk up to the counter. They have met the requirements you mention. You walk in the store with a concealed handgun. Because you have not yet walked to the counter, you cannot see the sign. Is that illegal carrying?

    If you don't leave the store when you see the sign, then yes.
     

    leadslinger972

    *Banned*
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    Nov 1, 2017
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    St Tammany
    If you don't leave the store when you see the sign, then yes.

    Is it? Can you provide that statute that says I must leave when I see the sign?

    Lowes and Home Depot have no firearms signs. They are on an aisle with price tags. Should I leave when I see the signs?
     
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