Range keeps copy of Form 4

dougstump · May 24, 2018

There is a range just South of here that allows full autos, however the owner makes and retains a copy of the form 4. I understand it's his property and he gets to make the rules. While I don't have a problem showing the form and verifying everything is legal, I have real big concerns with leaving him keeping a copy. An associate redacted his address but it's still got his name, and a phone book will reveal his address.

What say you all?

meplatgroup · May 24, 2018

dougstump said:
There is a range just South of here that allows full autos, however the owner makes and retains a copy of the form 4. I understand it's his property and he gets to make the rules. While I don't have a problem showing the form and verifying everything is legal, I have real big concerns with leaving him keeping a copy. An associate redacted his address but it's still got his name, and a phone book will reveal his address.

What say you all?

I concur. While it is his range, his rules, he has zero legitimate reason for keeping a copy of the Form 4. I could *possibly* understand him requesting to see the Form 4 prior to letting you shoot to make sure it is a legal MG, there isn’t a reason for him to keep a copy.

If you don’t mind, could you text me the name of the range? I know some of the range owners and could possibly have a chat with them and explain why this is a really bad idea.

My cell is (504) 717-3377.

Thanks,
Kenny

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dougstump · May 24, 2018

Sorry, I should have put it in the first post. Long Range Alley Gun Club, 318-872-0111. This is one of the reasons I haven't joined, unless he's changed his policy in the last year.

herohog · May 24, 2018

I used to have a membership there. Never dealt with Class 3 stuff though. Only shot F/A in VA while we lived up there and as long as you had the papers with you, you were golden.

rcm192 · May 24, 2018

Keeping a copy of a form 4 on file for people to shoot nfa items is about as cool as the time that I went to Bayou Dragon and shot my early SBbraced AR pistol (now SBR).

After a few rounds of shooting my AR pistol with the original SB15 brace the younger guy that works there flicked the range lights and signaled me to come talk to him. I was asked to produce a tax stamp. For what?! I asked. I schooled him on the whole brace deal. He called the local ATF branch while I was shooting. Keep in mind...I have worked in retail (including NFA) firearm sales since 2011. I overheard his end of the phone call. I could tell that he was not speaking with a curious customer. After I specifically asked if he called the ATF. He said yes. I asked for elaboration on their response. They told him to not to police his customers. I cant make this **** up! lol. When I get some free time I will go back for shits and grins with another SBA3 equipped lower and a echo trigger to give it a try. If I am asked to produce a stamp again Ill swap lowers and run my SBR lower and tell him that theyre mine to shoot how I want to, legally and safely.

end story. just reminded me of ******** at a range.

JR1572 · May 24, 2018

dougstump said:
Sorry, I should have put it in the first post. Long Range Alley Gun Club, 318-872-0111. This is one of the reasons I haven't joined, unless he's changed his policy in the last year.

rcm192 said:
Keeping a copy of a form 4 on file for people to shoot nfa items is about as cool as the time that I went to Bayou Dragon and shot my early SBbraced AR pistol (now SBR).

After a few rounds of shooting my AR pistol with the original SB15 brace the younger guy that works there flicked the range lights and signaled me to come talk to him. I was asked to produce a tax stamp. For what?! I asked. I schooled him on the whole brace deal. He called the local ATF branch while I was shooting. Keep in mind...I have worked in retail (including NFA) firearm sales since 2011. I overheard his end of the phone call. I could tell that he was not speaking with a curious customer. After I specifically asked if he called the ATF. He said yes. I asked for elaboration on their response. They told him to not to police his customers. I cant make this **** up! lol. When I get some free time I will go back for shits and grins with another SBA3 equipped lower and a echo trigger to give it a try. If I am asked to produce a stamp again Ill swap lowers and run my SBR lower and tell him that theyre mine to shoot how I want to, legally and safely.

end story. just reminded me of ******** at a range.

Wow, sounds like two really classy places.

I’ll pass on both.

Gator 45/70 · May 24, 2018

Why should anyone have to produce a TAX stamp to anyone not with the ATF? After all it is a tax.

troy_mclure · May 25, 2018

Gator 45/70 said:
Why should anyone have to produce a TAX stamp to anyone not with the ATF? After all it is a tax.

this.

leadslinger972 · May 25, 2018

If a range asked me to produce a tax stamp, I'd flash it to them. If they ask to record or keep a copy, I'd tell them to pound sand.

machinedrummer · May 25, 2018

The owner might be a Russian bot making a list of People that have NFA weapons. It will make it easier when the commies go door to door and round them all up.

meplatgroup · May 25, 2018

rcm192 said:
Keeping a copy of a form 4 on file for people to shoot nfa items is about as cool as the time that I went to Bayou Dragon and shot my early SBbraced AR pistol (now SBR).

I’ve heard that story before—is this Ryan?

I agree that there is absolutely no law that requires you to show a tax stamp to anyone other than an ATF agent. I’d certainly show my stamp to a range officer upon request (their range, their rules) but I’ll be damned if I give them a copy. I don’t know anyone at that particular range and so I won’t stick my nose in there to tell him how to run his business.

Buy the way, if anyone is looking to buy or sell transferable machine guns, we can help. We either buy them ourselves or broker them to a list of local buyers.

If you all are looking for a great long distance range (900+ yards) to shoot where you can also shoot MGs without this kind of hassle go check out FTS Range (formerly Eymard’s) down in Cut Off. Great folks and a fantastic range.

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rcm192 · May 25, 2018

meplatgroup said:
I’ve heard that story before—is this Ryan?

I agree that there is absolutely no law that requires you to show a tax stamp to anyone other than an ATF agent. I’d certainly show my stamp to a range officer upon request (their range, their rules) but I’ll be damned if I give them a copy. I don’t know anyone at that particular range and so I won’t stick my nose in there to tell him how to run his business.

Buy the way, if anyone is looking to buy or sell transferable machine guns, we can help. We either buy them ourselves or broker them to a list of local buyers.

If you all are looking for a great long distance range (900+ yards) to shoot where you can also shoot MGs without this kind of hassle go check out FTS Range (formerly Eymard’s) down in Cut Off. Great folks and a fantastic range.

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Thats me!

cajun 22 · May 26, 2018

Unless something has changed in the last couple of weeks, FTS does not allow full-auto as written in the range rules. Used to be ok with the former owner. I have talked to the new owner about allowing this and he is considering this based upon review of the insurance required. I talked about possibly setting up matches, shoots, or designated days for this. I will update in new thread if this changes.

To the OP, his range his rules seems to apply here. I have been fooling around with the NFA stuff for over 10 years and have never been asked for my "papers". I would show forms if asked but would never allow a copy to be made.

Grandpa · Jul 12, 2018

I went to a range several years ago and a range official was looking at every weapon and recording serial numbers. Had I not been on a long anticipated range day with my brother-in-law and my two sons, I would have immediately walked out. I regret doing so. I have never been back.

I think most of us are very private of our stuff. Unnecessary intrusion is a BAD business decision regardless of reason. I will not under any circumstances, give or allow a copy of my paperwork to be made by any range person nor will I show my paperwork to anyone other than a law enforcement officer.

Ranges may make rules. I have rules as well.

Magdump · Jul 12, 2018

Just more reasons to build your own range and stay away from public ranges.

Of course, I don’t have air conditioning...but on the upside, I don’t worry about inhaling lead, getting shot by a derp, dealing with spectators, costly fees, which ammo and guns I can shoot, giving unauthorized derps a copy of my legal papers, etc, etc..

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hdfinder47 · Aug 26, 2018

At the range where I RO we only request serial number if a round goes over the berm. It does happen but infrequently. FA with approval of RM - usually approved depending on how crowded the range is and how sane the shooter seems (lol).

KDerekT83 · Aug 26, 2018

Grandpa said:
I think most of us are very private of our stuff. Unnecessary intrusion is a BAD business decision regardless of reason. I will not under any circumstances, give or allow a copy of my paperwork to be made by any range person nor will I show my paperwork to anyone other than a law enforcement officer.

Ranges may make rules. I have rules as well.

I second this.....

Range keeps copy of Form 4

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