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  1. #31
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    I bought a Sig 516 three or so years ago and paid about $1500. They're more now. With the assistance of a Dremel Drill I put a Timney trigger in it. I can shoot about 1.5 MOA at 100 yards off a bipod. It's not nearly as accurate as my bolt action rifles. I've also built three ARs. They all shoot reliably but can't match the Sig in accuracy. I've learned that building an ACCURATE AR is an art and science. You have to have quality parts (trigger, upper reciever, barrel, and bolt carrier group especially) and have all the necessary tools, of which there are many. How accurate are those $600 ARs? I have no idea, but my money is on not very.

    I would never do business with Palmetto State Armory. Check out the number complaints the BBB has on them.

  2. #32
    ESSAYONS

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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveforfive View Post
    I bought a Sig 516 three or so years ago and paid about $1500. They're more now. With the assistance of a Dremel Drill I put a Timney trigger in it. I can shoot about 1.5 MOA at 100 yards off a bipod. It's not nearly as accurate as my bolt action rifles. I've also built three ARs. They all shoot reliably but can't match the Sig in accuracy. I've learned that building an ACCURATE AR is an art and science. You have to have quality parts (trigger, upper reciever, barrel, and bolt carrier group especially) and have all the necessary tools, of which there are many. How accurate are those $600 ARs? I have no idea, but my money is on not very.

    I would never do business with Palmetto State Armory. Check out the number complaints the BBB has on them.
    The $600 ARs are not going to be as accurate. But they are not meant to be match grade guns. In the real world, there is a concept called accurate enough. If I have a nuisance animal on my property (raccoon, cayote, wild hog), I'm looking at a 30-40 yard shot max. I do not need a sub moa rifle. At real world distances, moa means less and less.

    PSA does a lot of business. Statistically, they are going to have a higher number of complaints than a company that does not sell as much. If they sell 100 parts and get 5 complaint, that's 5%. If another company sells 60 parts and gets 4 complaints, that's 6%. The smaller business gets fewer complaints but has a higher complaint rate. The BBB is only as accurate as the information provided by the consumers. How often do people go to the BBB and post a compliment? I would venture to guess not nearly as often and people who post a complaint. Take the information from the BBB with a grain of salt. They don't provide a complete picture of a company's performance.

  3. #33
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    My first AR was the Ruger .556 and it is as accurate as any carbine can be . 3/4 to 1 1/2 moa with quality factory ammo . It doesn't matter if you have a 100 barrel or 500 barrel if you put crap in you will get crap out .

    Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

  4. #34
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by thperez1972 View Post
    The $600 ARs are not going to be as accurate. But they are not meant to be match grade guns. In the real world, there is a concept called accurate enough. If I have a nuisance animal on my property (raccoon, cayote, wild hog), I'm looking at a 30-40 yard shot max. I do not need a sub moa rifle. At real world distances, moa means less and less.

    PSA does a lot of business. Statistically, they are going to have a higher number of complaints than a company that does not sell as much. If they sell 100 parts and get 5 complaint, that's 5%. If another company sells 60 parts and gets 4 complaints, that's 6%. The smaller business gets fewer complaints but has a higher complaint rate. The BBB is only as accurate as the information provided by the consumers. How often do people go to the BBB and post a compliment? I would venture to guess not nearly as often and people who post a complaint. Take the information from the BBB with a grain of salt. They don't provide a complete picture of a company's performance.
    I have only had excellent service form PSA. They had an issue with the barrels on their AR-9 and replaced mine, no questions asked and free shipping both ways!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lets_Ride View Post
    I have only had excellent service form PSA. They had an issue with the barrels on their AR-9 and replaced mine, no questions asked and free shipping both ways!
    Me too. I have a couple of PSA uppers, a lower, lower parts kits, and a few BCGs and never had any problems.

  6. #36
    Marksman

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    I’ve ordered many mags, Blem lower, etc and never had any problems. I think years ago PSA had some customer service issues and shipping was slow but I’ve always had great service and very fast shipping.
    Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't.

    Tim

  7. #37
    Marksman

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    Have had nothing but great service from PSA over the years. Was able to visit one of their stores in South Carolina a few weeks ago and it was very nice with friendly people/staff.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  8. #38
    Marksman

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    I agree with everyone that has suggested buying an out-of-the-box AR from a respectable company, but perhaps for a slightly different reason.

    If this is your first AR, then you're going to have a learning curve in front of you as you learn to use the rifle in whatever (lawful) manner you'll find for it. During that learning curve you'll learn about your body's own natural geometry and where your strengths and weaknesses are, and you'll quickly learn that the limiting factor isn't any of the gun's parts or assemblies, but rather the person holding it. In other words: if you're going to invest in anything, invest in training. An out-of-the-box $600 PSA or S&W or Ruger rifle in the hands of a skilled marksman is going to make a lot more 10 point shots than the world's greatest wunderblaster in the hands of a rookie.

    Once you're on your way to developing good technique you'll start to understand better what that particular weapon does well (and doesn't do well). And at that point, you'll have a much easier time selling it if it's not one of the million-odd frankenguns that are currently on the market. I'll buy a bone-stock Ruger or S&W or PSA or Sig or DD all day long ... but one of these "lower from XX and upper from YY and barrel from AA" guns is going to sit in your safe for a long, long time. And chances are, the improvements you'll want to make will be small ones; perhaps a different stock or a different set of sights.

    And yes ... there are some incredibly knowledgeable builders out there that can put together a phenomenal weapon, and I suspect much of the expertise freely available on this forum could result just such a tack driver. But you're probably not good enough (yet) to leverage the benefits of a weapon like this, so why start hemorrhaging money now? Get something prebuilt and with a warranty, and with the money you save you can get yourself training and range time with.

    Mike
    Honi soit qui mal y pense.

  9. #39
    Newbie

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    If nobody else has said this, be sure to specify M4 guides for the bolt head - one of the major improvements from the original M16. These cut the feeding jams to nothing.

  10. #40
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    Invest your money into three things:
    1. good quality barrel (match grade if you can afford it)
    2. Good quality Bolt Carrier Group (Toolcraft is what I use. Guaranteed for life and they make most of them for others)
    3. Good quality trigger. Rise if budget minded ($84 @ Brownells Right now). Timney, Geiselle, CMC if price is no object. Most of mine are Rise and I love them. 3.5 lbs is sweet.

    The rest I would buy as your budget allows. Mil-spec means everyone has to be close to the same so you really don't have to buy the $200 lowers, a $49 one will do. Same thing with the freefloat hand guard ($40 -$70) just make sure its a steel barrel nut. There are alot of parts on the marked which are cheap and function just as well as the high dollar stuff. Don't pay $100 for an LPK when a $35-$45 one does the same thing.

    I have built about 20 AR's and I learned how years ago by watching YOUTUBE. Most of them will give you a step by step and what pitfalls you might encounter. I can build one in about 30 minutes now.
    Last edited by kbownds; July 11th, 2018 at 09:19 AM.

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