Nike rewarding the kneeler?

I stopped buying Nike long ago, the quality wan not good for what they charge. Just out of curiosity, what did the NFL players do in the off season to help with "oppression"???

I saw this picture on the Facespook, think it sums it up for me. Nike and the NFL can do whatever they want, I won't be outside protesting, but I do avoid some companies when spending my $.

Gus McCrae said:

I just don't understand why we are upset about the kneeling.

Click to expand...

And you probably never will.

I haven’t bought Nike products in years, some of their stuff is crap.
I also don’t watch professional football, all of their stuff is crap.
The kneeling thing doesn’t really make me mad; the failing to enforce policy makes me mad.
The players get paid (too much) to entertain the fans, not to pass their personal agenda on to the fans.
Go back to your *job* of playing ball and Shut the F—- Up!!!!

#1bambam said:

And you probably never will.

Click to expand...

You are probably right.

I comprehend the reasons why, but honestly, what some football players do isn't that important. It's not like they are putting their money where thier mouth is..... It's not like the vet that goes over seas or the cop who does his job even if he/she isn't appreciated.... It's not even the poor schmuck that goes to a real job 80hrs to take care of their family.

It's a football player. I don't get why anyone cares.

Fred_G said:

I stopped buying Nike long ago, the quality wan not good for what they charge. Just out of curiosity, what did the NFL players do in the off season to help with "oppression"???

I saw this picture on the Facespook, think it sums it up for me. Nike and the NFL can do whatever they want, I won't be outside protesting, but I do avoid some companies when spending my $.View attachment 80225

Click to expand...

Fred, thank you for posting that meme brother. I think it’s awesome and I hope it goes viral. That’s my first time seeing it.

Saw an article that stated the buzz surrounding this made Nike $43 million.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sandman7925 said:

Saw an article that stated the buzz surrounding this made Nike $43 million.k

Click to expand...

And that's all it's about.

Most of you guys probably don't watch Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, on Netflix, but last season, they had an episode where they renamed the Washington Redskins to the Washington Gun-Takers (and all the other teams in the NFL to other various left or right-wing incendiary names) to make millions in merch outrage sales, burns, re-sales, burns (wash, rinse, repeat).

It was pretty hilarious and I think Nike literally stole their idea for this campaign!

Y'know, all of this standing versus kneeling crap is a good bellweather of what is wrong with our society on both sides of the political spectrum.

Professional sports are a moneymaking enterprise. The more media frenzy they can muster, the more people will pay attention to it. If you don't like what's happening with professional sports, then don't spend your time and money there. It's so painfully easy.

As for standing versus kneeling: last I checked, the first amendment is still intact, and people can express their patriotism as they wish. If it's really important to you to argue about that, then fine ... but let's not pretend that speaking out against the establishment is something new. The founding fathers were threatened with death for speaking out against the English crown and its manifold oppression, yet we canonize the founding fathers for having the bravery to speak out. Whether or not the sports characters that are kneeling are doing the same thing is anyone's guess, but when we call for these people to be persecuted, we play the role of "snowflake" and show just how delicate and silly our sensitivities are.

I stand for the anthem and I place my hand over my heart for the pledge of allegiance, but that is my choice. And I respect the choices of others: not because I always agree with them, but because I don't believe that everyone should act exactly as I do. That's fascism.

Mike

RaleighReloader said:

Y'know, all of this standing versus kneeling crap is a good bellweather of what is wrong with our society on both sides of the political spectrum.

Professional sports are a moneymaking enterprise. The more media frenzy they can muster, the more people will pay attention to it. If you don't like what's happening with professional sports, then don't spend your time and money there. It's so painfully easy.

As for standing versus kneeling: last I checked, the first amendment is still intact, and people can express their patriotism as they wish. If it's really important to you to argue about that, then fine ... but let's not pretend that speaking out against the establishment is something new. The founding fathers were threatened with death for speaking out against the English crown and its manifold oppression, yet we canonize the founding fathers for having the bravery to speak out. Whether or not the sports characters that are kneeling are doing the same thing is anyone's guess, but when we call for these people to be persecuted, we play the role of "snowflake" and show just how delicate and silly our sensitivities are.

I stand for the anthem and I place my hand over my heart for the pledge of allegiance, but that is my choice. And I respect the choices of others: not because I always agree with them, but because I don't believe that everyone should act exactly as I do. That's fascism.

Mike

Click to expand...

Why do people think this is a first amendment issue? The first amendment says that the government cannot control your speech. The first amendment, however, does not give people the authority to say anything they want, anywhere, at any time. The NFL is not a government agency. It is a business. It has employees, some of which are the players. The business has the absolute right to dictate its employees behavior while they are at work. So while the players are free to express their patriotism as they wish, that freedom stops when they are at work. The first amendment does not prohibit an employer from disciplining their employees. The players should not be persecuted. But they should receive disciplinary action in accordance with the policies set forth by their employer.

thperez1972 said:

Why do people think this is a first amendment issue? The first amendment says that the government cannot control your speech. The first amendment, however, does not give people the authority to say anything they want, anywhere, at any time. The NFL is not a government agency. It is a business. It has employees, some of which are the players. The business has the absolute right to dictate its employees behavior while they are at work. So while the players are free to express their patriotism as they wish, that freedom stops when they are at work. The first amendment does not prohibit an employer from disciplining their employees. The players should not be persecuted. But they should receive disciplinary action in accordance with the policies set forth by their employer.

Click to expand...

Sure, their employers can fire them; I never argued otherwise. But that's not really at the heart of the issue.

The heart of this issue is much older, and much more systemic in our culture. We still live in a society where having African Americans speak out about injustices is deeply unpopular. Sure, people will say that it's not about race and that it's about showing respect to the flag, or even about doing what their employers tell them to do ... but we all know that this is a whitewashing.

I love these protests. Shrouding one's self in a mantle of patriotism to object to protest speech is the height of hypocrisy, and it shows how shallow many peoples' understanding of our freedoms really are. And yes, African Americans have gotten the short end of the stick since well before the signing of the Declaration of Independence, so I can only imagine their frustrations.

I stand for the anthem, but I fully support the right of these people to kneel. If their employers want to punish them for doing this, then it just makes it easier to not purchase the products they're selling (I don't purchase professional sports products or entertainment, so it's net zero for me). But let's not pretend that this is just about some kids acting out and needing to be punished by their employer ... that's naive at best, and ignorant at worst. And I'd like to think that we're smarter than that.

Ditto for Nike. I have never owned Nike shoes and don't plan to start anytime soon, but they're wading into uncomfortable waters to hopefully provoke discussion. People that are burning their Nike products may think they're making a statement; in truth they're just chopping off their nose to spite their face.

Mike

RaleighReloader said:

Sure, their employers can fire them; I never argued otherwise. But that's not really at the heart of the issue.

The heart of this issue is much older, and much more systemic in our culture. We still live in a society where having African Americans speak out about injustices is deeply unpopular. Sure, people will say that it's not about race and that it's about showing respect to the flag, or even about doing what their employers tell them to do ... but we all know that this is a whitewashing.

I love these protests. Shrouding one's self in a mantle of patriotism to object to protest speech is the height of hypocrisy, and it shows how shallow many peoples' understanding of our freedoms really are. And yes, African Americans have gotten the short end of the stick since well before the signing of the Declaration of Independence, so I can only imagine their frustrations.

I stand for the anthem, but I fully support the right of these people to kneel. If their employers want to punish them for doing this, then it just makes it easier to not purchase the products they're selling (I don't purchase professional sports products or entertainment, so it's net zero for me). But let's not pretend that this is just about some kids acting out and needing to be punished by their employer ... that's naive at best, and ignorant at worst. And I'd like to think that we're smarter than that.

Ditto for Nike. I have never owned Nike shoes and don't plan to start anytime soon, but they're wading into uncomfortable waters to hopefully provoke discussion. People that are burning their Nike products may think they're making a statement; in truth they're just chopping off their nose to spite their face.

Mike

Click to expand...

I wish they would but they are not speaking out. And people aren't protesting the speech. They're protesting the time and the place. Because the time and place is inappropriate, their message is lost and they are disrespecting the flag for nothing. There would not be this much outrage if they burned the flag at a press conference. Sure, there would be a little outrage, but not to the degree there is now. And Black Americans (to say they are all from Africa is stereotyping) protesting oppression but not actually doing anything to correct the oppression while expecting others to identify the problem and create a solution is a bit hypocritical. If there's a widespread problem, let's talk about it. Identify the problem. Give some examples to show it's actually a widespread problem. Only then can a conversation take place as to what can be done to fix it. Until then, they are some kids acting out at work.

As I said before, if their goal was truly to create some sort of change, wouldn't their actions indicate such? Speak to the media after the game. Meet with people who are part of the problem to work toward a common solution. Until they follow up their protest with actions or, at the least, with defining the problem, they will remain some kids acting out, not some patriots. And to call them out on the inappropriate time and place is not unpatriotic.

And Nike has provoked discussion. Unfortunately it's mainly been the hypocrisy that Kaepernick has sacrificed everything by protesting those who have actually sacrificed everything. As far as destroying Nike products, it's all symbolic and somewhat pointless. Nike already has their money. The only effect destroying the stuff will do is add to the market share of Nike's competitors when the people have to replace their destroyed items.

thperez1972 said:

I wish they would but they are not speaking out. And people aren't protesting the speech. They're protesting the time and the place. Because the time and place is inappropriate, their message is lost and they are disrespecting the flag for nothing. There would not be this much outrage if they burned the flag at a press conference. Sure, there would be a little outrage, but not to the degree there is now. And Black Americans (to say they are all from Africa is stereotyping) protesting oppression but not actually doing anything to correct the oppression while expecting others to identify the problem and create a solution is a bit hypocritical. If there's a widespread problem, let's talk about it. Identify the problem. Give some examples to show it's actually a widespread problem. Only then can a conversation take place as to what can be done to fix it. Until then, they are some kids acting out at work.

As I said before, if their goal was truly to create some sort of change, wouldn't their actions indicate such? Speak to the media after the game. Meet with people who are part of the problem to work toward a common solution. Until they follow up their protest with actions or, at the least, with defining the problem, they will remain some kids acting out, not some patriots. And to call them out on the inappropriate time and place is not unpatriotic.

And Nike has provoked discussion. Unfortunately it's mainly been the hypocrisy that Kaepernick has sacrificed everything by protesting those who have actually sacrificed everything. As far as destroying Nike products, it's all symbolic and somewhat pointless. Nike already has their money. The only effect destroying the stuff will do is add to the market share of Nike's competitors when the people have to replace their destroyed items.

Click to expand...

Many (including me) would argue that these protests honor the flag. If speaking out against oppression isn't a patriotic act, then what is? My American ancestors went to war (and in some cases, died in those wars) to protect rights. Not fragile sensitivities.

And yes, it's inconvenient. That's the point. The point is to make people feel uncomfortable, because large swaths of people have been doing that to certain visible minorities (not just "Black Americans," or "African Americans," or however else someone might self-identify) for centuries. Press conference are easy to ignore; doing things like this during sporting events that tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people attend, and that tens (hundreds?) of millions of people watch on TV has far deeper reach. And let's be honest: that's really why people are objecting. It brings a very ugly problem into the comfy suburban homes of people that would much pretend that this isn't an issue at all (or one that they can watch through the lenses of Fox and CNN as passive observers).

In terms of actually doing something ... there's plenty going on. Look at how the black Democratic vote has been mobilized, particularly in Southern states. If you think this is the only thing that's going on, then you're not paying attention.

Mike

RaleighReloader said:

Many (including me) would argue that these protests honor the flag. If speaking out against oppression isn't a patriotic act, then what is? My American ancestors went to war (and in some cases, died in those wars) to protect rights. Not fragile sensitivities.

And yes, it's inconvenient. That's the point. The point is to make people feel uncomfortable, because large swaths of people have been doing that to certain visible minorities (not just "Black Americans," or "African Americans," or however else someone might self-identify) for centuries. Press conference are easy to ignore; doing things like this during sporting events that tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people attend, and that tens (hundreds?) of millions of people watch on TV has far deeper reach. And let's be honest: that's really why people are objecting. It brings a very ugly problem into the comfy suburban homes of people that would much pretend that this isn't an issue at all (or one that they can watch through the lenses of Fox and CNN as passive observers).

In terms of actually doing something ... there's plenty going on. Look at how the black Democratic vote has been mobilized, particularly in Southern states. If you think this is the only thing that's going on, then you're not paying attention.

Mike

Click to expand...

I went to war and lost friends in the war to protect those rights. I don't have an issue with someone exercising their free speech by disrespecting the flag. In fact, I would thank them for doing so just as I thanked them when I used to wear an army uniform and they had negative things to say. When they were surprised by my thanking them, my reply was that their saying those things because they had the freedom to do so was their way of thanking me for my service. So it's not about fragile sensitivities.

People aren't uncomfortable when the players kneel. People view it as hypocritical. These players, who are obviously not oppressed, are protesting oppression but they are doing nothing about it. Yes, press conferences are easy to ignore. But free speech guarantees you a voice. It does not guarantee you an audience. Yes, the kneeling has a far deeper reach. And the NFL feels that reach. They have been losing viewers and money to the point where they had to get a handle on the actions of the players. But the kneeling is not bringing anything into any homes. People are not talking about the cause. People are talking about the kneeling.

And I see what's going on, from the kids acting out at work to the Black Lives Matter ignoring justice and calling for revenge every time a Black American puts an officer in fear of receiving great bodily harm or death and is killed. Many people want to talk about how there's a problem but balk and speak in generalities when they are asked to identify a specific problem.

So what have the players who are kneeling actually done other than kneel during the anthem?

thperez1972 said:

I went to war and lost friends in the war to protect those rights. I don't have an issue with someone exercising their free speech by disrespecting the flag. In fact, I would thank them for doing so just as I thanked them when I used to wear an army uniform and they had negative things to say. When they were surprised by my thanking them, my reply was that their saying those things because they had the freedom to do so was their way of thanking me for my service. So it's not about fragile sensitivities.

People aren't uncomfortable when the players kneel. People view it as hypocritical. These players, who are obviously not oppressed, are protesting oppression but they are doing nothing about it.

Click to expand...

I'm not a woman, but I protest what I believe are incursions into women's rights. I suspect many of these players feel that using their status as sports celebrities brings something to the debate that those who are truly oppressed can't. And in terms of "doing nothing about it," isn't giving voice to the problem something?

I don't follow professional sports and I don't know what else these people are doing, so I can't give specifics about what else they might be doing.

But let's not swat flies while we get stomped by elephants. We are witnessing a rising voting bloc of African Americans (particularly women) unlike any rise we've ever seen before, and especially here in the South. And while I don't think we're going to see quite the "blue wave" that many people hope to see in November, I do believe that we will see new political fault lines where they didn't exist previously.

thperez1972 said:

Yes, press conferences are easy to ignore. But free speech guarantees you a voice. It does not guarantee you an audience. Yes, the kneeling has a far deeper reach. And the NFL feels that reach. They have been losing viewers and money to the point where they had to get a handle on the actions of the players. But the kneeling is not bringing anything into any homes. People are not talking about the cause. People are talking about the kneeling.

Click to expand...

They're not getting a "handle" on their players. They're making a calculated move based on what they believe will maximize profits. Let's be clear that this has nothing to do with morals, ethics or "the right thing." I'm sure the NFL has a team of data scientists that are closely scrutinizing the demographics of their audience, and trying to figure out which response will maintain the largest audience share.

To this end, why do you think Levis has announced support for gun control? This has nothing to do with ethics ... it's hedging on the bet that virtue signaling about gun control will sell more jeans. So it goes with Levis, the NFL, Dick's, WalMart, Starbucks, and every other big company that has waded into these political waters. They see an opportunity and they're going to explore it to see what it does to their profits.

thperez1972 said:

And I see what's going on, from the kids acting out at work to the Black Lives Matter ignoring justice and calling for revenge every time a Black American puts an officer in fear of receiving great bodily harm or death and is killed. Many people want to talk about how there's a problem but balk and speak in generalities when they are asked to identify a specific problem.

Click to expand...

Yep. It's the same problem as white supremacists carrying guns at rallies, which gives the media all the fodder they need to portray gun enthusiasts as white supremacists. It's maddening.

Mike

RaleighReloader said:

I'm not a woman, but I protest what I believe are incursions into women's rights. I suspect many of these players feel that using their status as sports celebrities brings something to the debate that those who are truly oppressed can't. And in terms of "doing nothing about it," isn't giving voice to the problem something?

I don't follow professional sports and I don't know what else these people are doing, so I can't give specifics about what else they might be doing.

But let's not swat flies while we get stomped by elephants. We are witnessing a rising voting bloc of African Americans (particularly women) unlike any rise we've ever seen before, and especially here in the South. And while I don't think we're going to see quite the "blue wave" that many people hope to see in November, I do believe that we will see new political fault lines where they didn't exist previously.

Click to expand...

If they were giving a voice to the problem, you could say they were doing something. But they're not giving a voice to the problem. Nobody is watching their actions and talking about their cause. They are watching their actions and talking about their actions. Even if their voice was being heard, that's only marginally more than nothing. Voices without action accomplish nothing. The only people who are hearing their message are the people who already supported their message. They are gaining no new supporters. Remember Kony 2012? Pretty soon, everyone became aware of the message. People "did something" by spreading the word. But it accomplished nothing except making people aware. Why? There was no call to action in the campaign. It was just an awareness campaign. The players' awareness campaign is like that but without the awareness part. So it becomes kids acting out at work.

Even though you don't follow professional sports, you know about the kneeling. The fact you know about that but not about anything else they are doing says a lot. It illustrates their message isn't getting out to the people who don't already know their message.

Here's an article about some players hosting a question and answer session with district attorney candidates with some quotes pulled from it.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/20/6220...eir-protests-off-field-in-the-political-arena

-"The anthem had its role," says Devin McCourty. "But I think, if we just took a knee every Sunday and we did that for five years, would anything change in the communities? I don't think so. I think this is the focus."

-While some players have dismissed the deal as a sell-out, UC Berkeley Professor Emeritus Harry Edwards calls it the right strategy, especially since he says players' on-field protests have been wrongly cast as unpatriotic.

-Edwards says this kind of activism, like moderating a debate, is not vulnerable to the same tactics. "[The players] are doing something productive and constructive without falling into the kinds of patriotic quicksand traps that have been thrown up and fueled and inflamed by the current administration," he says.

I find it interesting that some players feel off the field action is selling out.

RaleighReloader said:

They're not getting a "handle" on their players. They're making a calculated move based on what they believe will maximize profits. Let's be clear that this has nothing to do with morals, ethics or "the right thing." I'm sure the NFL has a team of data scientists that are closely scrutinizing the demographics of their audience, and trying to figure out which response will maintain the largest audience share.

To this end, why do you think Levis has announced support for gun control? This has nothing to do with ethics ... it's hedging on the bet that virtue signaling about gun control will sell more jeans. So it goes with Levis, the NFL, Dick's, WalMart, Starbucks, and every other big company that has waded into these political waters. They see an opportunity and they're going to explore it to see what it does to their profits.

Click to expand...

Exactly, it's not about morals, ethics, or the right thing. It's about money. It's about money because this is a business and the kids acting out at work are hurting their profits. It's not a free speech issue.

A Loser as the Victory Poster Child; ironic.

A “Victory” Commercial with their new Poster Child is set to air at the beginning of tomorrow’s Thursday Night Football. I was going to watch the game, but won’t now.