Pin and weld or go the pistol route?

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  • D_behrnes

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    Zachary
    So I’m at a crossroads between cutting my AR barrel to 14.0* and pinning a 2.67* surefire break or just cutting it to 12.5(this is just an upper) and getting a pistol brace. This rifle won’t see much action out past 100 yards so the difference in muzzle velocity isn’t really an issue for me. Either option will work for me but If you guys were building this what direction would you take and why? What’s the pros and cons of your decision? Looking forward to yalls input. (*= inches)
     
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    Bigchillin83

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    what kinda gun? ar platform?

    also something to consider, unless I miss interrupted the law.. if your using an ar platform gun, and the AR complete gun or just the lower was purchased as a "RIFLE" it is always a rifle, if you were to put a brace on it and make it a "pistol length barrel" that is a violation of the ATF/NFA law... A rifle cannot be made into a pistol unless some paper work is submitted I believe is what I have been told.. now I think you can install any length barrel on a "pistol lower" ex. 16" barrel but you still cannot add a stock on it,

    so in other words you can take a "PISTOL LOWER" and install a 18" barrel and use it with a "BRACE" but cannot install a stock, because there is no min/max length on pistol barrels

    but there is a min length on a "RIFLE LOWER" of 16" and cannot go any smaller, nor can you go smaller and install a brace and legally change the classification to a pistol


    If you bought a "complete lower" with a stock it is a rifle, if you bought a "stripped lower" or "complete pistol lower" it can be braced
     
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    Scott5.0

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    Bigchillin83 is on to something. Since you are starting with a rifle, the barrel/muzzle device has to be 16" or longer.

    Unless you are interested in a Federally funded vacation, go out a buy a pistol lower and go as short with your barrel as your heart desires.
     

    D_behrnes

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    what kinda gun? ar platform?

    also something to consider, unless I miss interrupted the law.. if your using an ar platform gun, and the AR complete gun or just the lower was purchased as a "RIFLE" it is always a rifle, if you were to put a brace on it and make it a "pistol length barrel" that is a violation of the ATF/NFA law... A rifle cannot be made into a pistol unless some paper work is submitted I believe is what I have been told.. now I think you can install any length barrel on a "pistol lower" ex. 16" barrel but you still cannot add a stock on it,

    so in other words you can take a "PISTOL LOWER" and install a 18" barrel and use it with a "BRACE" but cannot install a stock, because there is no min/max length on pistol barrels

    but there is a min length on a "RIFLE LOWER" of 16" and cannot go any smaller, nor can you go smaller and install a brace and legally change the classification to a pistol


    If you bought a "complete lower" with a stock it is a rifle, if you bought a "stripped lower" or "complete pistol lower" it can be braced
    This is just an upper. I have pistol lowers that I had to specify when buying what I was using it for just no braces at the moment and I also have rifle lowers that were also specified on the paperwork when I bought them. I wasn’t %100 sure what that was for until just now when you explained it to me(this is useful info for people who aren’t in the know on this issue). I also changed my post to say *AR barrel* to clear any confusion thanks for pointing that out. So with that being said either or will work. If I go pistol I have a lower I can slap it on and if I go 16.17* barrel length I have a lower for that as well.
     
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    Bigchillin83

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    image.jpgimage.jpgI have AR SBR's and ar PISTOLS's... and several standard length ar rifles.. if I could do it all over again and if I add any new ar platfoms to my collection they will most likely be "PISTOLS" they are very versatile , in todays situation/environment cqb 10.5'-12.5" barrel is more than adequate for 150yards.. And with the new brace technology from the sba3,blade, tail hooks ect and the ability to cross state lines without any other paperwork for nfa/sbr items to me its a no brainer..
     

    D_behrnes

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    View attachment 80688View attachment 80689I have AR SBR's and ar PISTOLS's... and several standard length ar rifles.. if I could do it all over again and if I add any new ar platfoms to my collection they will most likely be "PISTOLS" they are very versatile , in todays situation/environment cqb 10.5'-12.5" barrel is more than adequate for 150yards.. And with the new brace technology from the sba3,blade, tail hooks ect and the ability to cross state lines without any other paperwork for nfa/sbr items to me its a no brainer..
    I’m looking into suppressors and plan on getting my sbr lower around the same time, hopefully sooner than later. I agree with you on the pistols especially since they have adjustable braces now. If I go the pistol route I saw a brace for sale in the classified I might have to snag.
     

    thperez1972

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    I would suggest picking up an SB SBA3 brace. It's the closest brace to a traditional stock at a reasonable price. They can usually be found for $120 and they use a traditional buffer tube. If there's something you can't get out of the brace and you need a traditional stock, sbr the thing and the brace moves on to the next build. I have one of the braces and will be getting a few more. I managed to grab on from Primary Arms when they had them for $99 just to try it out and, of course, I now regret not grabbing more. Personally, I'm fine with a basic stock. Most of my rifle stocks are basic $40-60 Magpuls. Most of my pistols have the Shockwave Blade. I've started converting the Blades to the SBA3. For the price of a stamp and a stock, I can get 2 SBA3's. I have not seen the advantage of an SBR that isn't included with an adjustable brace. And I think the quality reasonably priced brace market will only get bigger unless the NFA is changed. Unless you want or need a 16" barrel, I'd say go shorter. Especially if the weapon will be seeing movement. I've trained for CQC with an M16. It's not fun. And considering the silencer will add a good bit of length on the end, I would want a movable host to be shorter. If it were a stationary loger range weapon, I'd go with the longer barrel.
     

    thperez1972

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    This is just an upper. I have pistol lowers that I had to specify when buying what I was using it for just no braces at the moment and I also have rifle lowers that were also specified on the paperwork when I bought them. I wasn’t %100 sure what that was for until just now when you explained it to me(this is useful info for people who aren’t in the know on this issue). I also changed my post to say *AR barrel* to clear any confusion thanks for pointing that out. So with that being said either or will work. If I go pistol I have a lower I can slap it on and if I go 16.17* barrel length I have a lower for that as well.

    I've bought a number of lowers but I can't remember specifying rifle or pistol.
     

    ozarkpugs

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    They are usually marked as OTHER and can be assembled as either one just remember if pistol first you can go back and forth if rifle first always a rifle so put a brace on every lower first then use it as you want
    I've bought a number of lowers but I can't remember specifying rifle or pistol.

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    ozarkpugs

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    Don't cut the barrel until you have a brace on a lower ,a less than 16" barrel and no Lower set up with brace or designated pistol tube will be considered intent to make an SBR out of one of your rifles .
    This is just an upper. I have pistol lowers that I had to specify when buying what I was using it for just no braces at the moment and I also have rifle lowers that were also specified on the paperwork when I bought them. I wasn’t %100 sure what that was for until just now when you explained it to me(this is useful info for people who aren’t in the know on this issue). I also changed my post to say *AR barrel* to clear any confusion thanks for pointing that out. So with that being said either or will work. If I go pistol I have a lower I can slap it on and if I go 16.17* barrel length I have a lower for that as well.

    Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk
     

    ozarkpugs

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    Unless you go to the UN gun friendly state of Arkansas . My 12.5 " 6.8 spc pistol is my favorite gun but when venturing into Ark I have to leave it home because they don't recognize anything over 10" as a pistol and long guns have to be in a locked case . I plan on building a 10" pistol upper just for ark .
    View attachment 80688View attachment 80689I have AR SBR's and ar PISTOLS's... and several standard length ar rifles.. if I could do it all over again and if I add any new ar platfoms to my collection they will most likely be "PISTOLS" they are very versatile , in todays situation/environment cqb 10.5'-12.5" barrel is more than adequate for 150yards.. And with the new brace technology from the sba3,blade, tail hooks ect and the ability to cross state lines without any other paperwork for nfa/sbr items to me its a no brainer..

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    SouthernUnderGod

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    Unless you go to the UN gun friendly state of Arkansas . My 12.5 " 6.8 spc pistol is my favorite gun but when venturing into Ark I have to leave it home because they don't recognize anything over 10" as a pistol and long guns have to be in a locked case . I plan on building a 10" pistol upper just for ark .

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    I don’t live in Arkansas but go there from time to time and have family with property there. Since I am likely to have occasion to have a firearm with me I’d like to get more specifics on the Arkansas rules. (I neither confirm nor deny that I am armed unless legally commanded to do so by a law enforcement officer ). I was not aware that Arkansas had those refs. Can you recommend a source for reading? Where did you find out about the locked case, etc. I guess I just assumed most Deep South states would be similar to LA. Does the NRA (or someone) have a comparison document?


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    ozarkpugs

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    You can google gun laws in Arkansas or how long can a pistol barrel be in Arkansas . They consider over 10" pistols "other weapons " so they are not legal to carry loaded in auto . Arkansas is leaning towards convective but has historically been the most liberal southern state.
    I don’t live in Arkansas but go there from time to time and have family with property there. Since I am likely to have occasion to have a firearm with me I’d like to get more specifics on the Arkansas rules. (I neither confirm nor deny that I am armed unless legally commanded to do so by a law enforcement officer ). I was not aware that Arkansas had those refs. Can you recommend a source for reading? Where did you find out about the locked case, etc. I guess I just assumed most Deep South states would be similar to LA. Does the NRA (or someone) have a comparison document?


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    thperez1972

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    Don't cut the barrel until you have a brace on a lower ,a less than 16" barrel and no Lower set up with brace or designated pistol tube will be considered intent to make an SBR out of one of your rifles .

    While you are mostly correct, that is a moot point. The ATF will only know about it if they have occasion to search your house. And if the ATF is searching your house, they already have something on you other than the SBR.
     

    SouthernUnderGod

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    Right after I posted that question I immediately started looking online. Apparently there have been a lot of frustrating situations that have been happening and people are getting different results in different jurisdictions. One of the weird ones was whether you are legally transporting based on being on a “journey” or not and what actually constitutes a “journey”! Also, in order to enter a private home with CC, you must notify all those people in the dwelling first and they must agree. There goes the “concealed” concept! Still looking for the locked case for long guns reg.


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    ozarkpugs

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    It doesn't have to be ATF any cop can arrest you on gun charges . I agree with you most of us will never have our house searched but one instance comes to mind , an ex girlfriend wanted to cause problems for a friend and claimed the friend had a machine gun ,no they didn't find one but his house was turned up side down . Why take the chance and tempt fate ? If you are going to get a brace do it first and be legal .
    While you are mostly correct, that is a moot point. The ATF will only know about it if they have occasion to search your house. And if the ATF is searching your house, they already have something on you other than the SBR.

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    ozarkpugs

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    Different opinions in the same jurisdiction even ,I was in mountain home Arkansas talking to 2 Leos and neither knew I could own a 12.5 AR pistol with out a stamp . They said it was another weapon as over 10" so I had to register it with the ATF , not true but if the wrong LEO pushed it it would cost thousands $ and a lot of time to prove it . Searching the laws is frustrating because it takes you in circles .On a good note Ark is under Conservative government now and may soon lighten up .
    Right after I posted that question I immediately started looking online. Apparently there have been a lot of frustrating situations that have been happening and people are getting different results in different jurisdictions. One of the weird ones was whether you are legally transporting based on being on a “journey” or not and what actually constitutes a “journey”! Also, in order to enter a private home with CC, you must notify all those people in the dwelling first and they must agree. There goes the “concealed” concept! Still looking for the locked case for long guns reg.


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    thperez1972

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    It doesn't have to be ATF any cop can arrest you on gun charges . I agree with you most of us will never have our house searched but one instance comes to mind , an ex girlfriend wanted to cause problems for a friend and claimed the friend had a machine gun ,no they didn't find one but his house was turned up side down . Why take the chance and tempt fate ? If you are going to get a brace do it first and be legal .

    Sorry, mad day isn't likely to be a cause of concern either. The police don't hear a complaint involving a non-life threatening emergency and run out to toss someone's house. They investigate the claim. Before they can enter the house, they need either permission of someone they believe is legally allowed to give permission or they need a warrant. Local or state law enforcement would need to get a warrant based on state law. What law would be the justification for the warrant? And cops quickly learn to spot when the person making the claim is a mad ex. So you can substitute law enforcement for ATF in my previous statement and my statement still stands.
     

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