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  • Troedoff

    *Banned*
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 18, 2014
    136
    16
    Prairieville
    I'm not saying there are not people capable of the shot, but the hype and BS surrounding taking an animal that size at 1000 yards and dropping it in it's tracks is just that BS. The editing of those shows is done strategically and is misleading. There are factors at play at those distances that 99.9 % of hunters know nothing about. As you stated wind currents and thermals are a complete unknown in the areas where these animals are hunted. Your not pulling up an AP on your phone for it. Go out west or on the plains and hunt, one out of every 30 days you may have calm winds. Long range target shooting and killing animals of that size with one shot and dropping them in there tracks are two completely different things.

    I see where you are coming from as far as the editing etc. I don't think that the average Joe is going to make those shots either, but the guys on those shows are not average joes. I know guides who frequently have patrons who make 700 yard shots. They ask them if they have ever made a shot like that, and often times will have the patron use the guide rifle, because it is proven, and he knows the dope by heart.

    In the case of the op, it would still seem to me he needs to spend some time putting rounds down range until he can produce respectable groups @100 if he wants to shoot at range. 3-500 is the beginning of medium range. Any modern high power rifle caliber should be able to make 500 with realative ease. When you start stretching past 500 is where things start to get more complicated.
     

    mike84z28

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    19   0   0
    Aug 13, 2012
    1,158
    38
    Kenner
    Yes practice and range time would be the best thing possible to improve his and anyone's shooting skills. I disagree on anyone shooting past 350 yards though without significant experience and knowledge. Ballistics on the 300wsm have bullet drop at about 46" at 500 yards when sighted in at 100. That would be a challenging shot for the most experienced of shooters without taking account for any outside factors such as wind, weather or the angle the animal is facing. At that distance 99.9 % of hunters are just slinging lead or copper and it's not fair to the animal.


    I see where you are coming from as far as the editing etc. I don't think that the average Joe is going to make those shots either, but the guys on those shows are not average joes. I know guides who frequently have patrons who make 700 yard shots. They ask them if they have ever made a shot like that, and often times will have the patron use the guide rifle, because it is proven, and he knows the dope by heart.

    In the case of the op, it would still seem to me he needs to spend some time putting rounds down range until he can produce respectable groups @100 if he wants to shoot at range. 3-500 is the beginning of medium range. Any modern high power rifle caliber should be able to make 500 with realative ease. When you start stretching past 500 is where things start to get more complicated.
     
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    Emperor

    Seriously Misunderstood!
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Mar 7, 2011
    8,376
    113
    Nether region
    Why would it be BS? Are you saying that there aren't people out there who can regularly shoot 1k+? In Louisiana or any where within 500 miles of here one would not likely have to take that shot, but in the arid lowlands of the Rockies, and desert it may be the only shot you get. Apparently you are used to only one type of hunting, and or have never been hunting in the mountains or say Utah. People there regularly are presented with long shots, because unlike here still hunting is not very productive there where herds are migrating. There are groups of people there who are dedicated to shooting long range, and develop their wildcat rounds, and custom rifles just for that.

    350 should be child's play for his 300WSM. He said his groups are 2" at 100 yards, which tells me he needs to work on his shooting before he tries to start stretching his legs. If his rifle is capable of 1" groups and most even off the shelf today are capable of that or better, at 100 he should be able to produce groups close to what his rifle is capable of before trying to take longer shots. 1" is only 3.5" at 350, but 2" is 7" now he missed the heart for sure, and maybe the lung depending on how he pulled the shot, and that is given his 100yd margin of error dead still. Now account for ballistics, and wind which there is little knowledge of, and your not even on the paper anymore. People on here can recommend things for you to do, but ultimately it is going to come down to learning and understanding basic ballistics. How elevation, Wind, and gravity affect the bullet, and developing the skills, and ability to shoot small groups @100 yds which means rounds down range. Then actually shooting at distance. There are many who can tell you how they do it, but that doesn't mean you can do it. The only way is to put in the range time with a good spotter, see and do. When you consistently are putting rounds on target at range, then you won't blink about taking that shot, and will know what the conditions are, and have a high percentage to make your shot.

    I agree with this reasoning.

    Having very few opportunities on my property over 150 yds. I don't practice for that distance. If I have a favorite rifle that I grab for deer time after time (and we all do), then that is the rifle I want to have for my specific purpose to hunt deer within that range. You absolutely must try to get groups inside of an inch at 100 yds before doing anything else. And you can shoot longer distances with the rifle you want to use, but as Troedoff mentioned, each distance you are off at 100, multiplies as you increases the distance. And yes, the same rifle can accomplish all the distances; the adjustment is your job.

    Find the sweet ammo it likes, check out it's ballistic behaviors (on the box or online), get those groups tighter at 100 yds, and then start putting some distance between you and the muzzle!

    Also, and this never occurred to me until I bounced off of some long range hunting enthusiasts. A typical hunting rifle barrel is not like a match rifle barrel. Don't let the barrel get hot when sighting in. Take time between shots. Hell some of these guys told me they actually put cold wet towels on their barrels between shots when sighting in?!? I don't know if this is true science or psychology, but now that I practice like that, it seems to work. 2 or 3 shots at target, make adjustments, go put out a bag of corn. Come back, shoot 2 or 3 again (if necessary), good to go!
     
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    Troedoff

    *Banned*
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 18, 2014
    136
    16
    Prairieville
    Yes practice and range time would be the best thing possible to improve his and anyone's shooting skills. I disagree on anyone shooting past 350 yards though without significant experience and knowledge. Ballistics on the 300wsm have bullet drop at about 46" at 500 yards when sighted in at 100. That would be a challenging shot for the most experienced of shooters without taking account for any outside factors such as wind, weather or the angle the animal is facing. At that distance 99.9 % of hunters are just slinging lead or copper and it's not fair to the animal.

    The drop is true, but at 500 there is still adequate velocity for the round to be completely predictable, and easily within holdover for any of my rifles with no adjustment at all. All I am saying is that it is much less complicated to shoot >500 than <500 where drops get into the hundreds of inches, and gravity, wind, and velocity start diminishing at an exponential rate to anything before that.
     

    mike84z28

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    19   0   0
    Aug 13, 2012
    1,158
    38
    Kenner
    Agreed !

    The drop is true, but at 500 there is still adequate velocity for the round to be completely predictable, and easily within holdover for any of my rifles with no adjustment at all. All I am saying is that it is much less complicated to shoot >500 than <500 where drops get into the hundreds of inches, and gravity, wind, and velocity start diminishing at an exponential rate to anything before that.
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
    Rating - 100%
    163   0   0
    Dec 31, 2013
    9,396
    113
    Hammond, Louisiana
    21 mph is one heck of a cross wind and definitely enough to drift a shot, not to mention hinder the shooter. When it comes to figuring dope on a shot, when hunting I much prefer to use hash marks on a scope rather than turning dials, but to each his own. The way I figure it, animals are not stationary targets and time can be important. That being said, without the cross wind, 350 yards is not a long shot for a properly scoped 300 WSM. The most effective way to make shots at longer ranges is to simply shoot at those ranges. I can generally pick up anyone’s 5.56 or .308 or .270 Win, if zero’d at 100 and hit a target at 300 with the first trigger pull. That’s not an extreme feat by any means, but I’ve done it time and again over the years for one simple reason. I’ve sent thousands of those rounds down range, at that range and beyond. Enough rounds to actually know the holdover by sight as long as I know the approximate size of the target down range.
    Make certain your rifle and scope are solid, find the most accurate round for that rifle, buy plenty of it and go shoot at measured ranges from 100-500 yards. Borrow a spotting scope if you don’t have one.
    I promise you that your ability and confidence will improve within 100 rounds, enough to justify the cost and trouble. There are a few tricks for steadying yourself and ensuring you release the shot clean. A good solid rest, holding the rifle tight to your shoulder, squeezing and not pulling the trigger, even finger placement on the trigger. Taking a deep breath and lining up the shot on the exhale, squeezing the trigger slow and steady right at the end of the breath. If you’re aware of your heartbeat you’ll have to try to touch off each round between heartbeats. Sometimes you find the right combo of all those things by pure repetition. My growing up afforded me over 1000yd range any time I chose. My target of choice was a 5 gallon bucket full of dirt. I learned what it looked like to my naked eye at anywhere between 100 and 1000 yards. I can still guesstimate range about as good as anyone I’m shooting with.
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
    Rating - 100%
    163   0   0
    Dec 31, 2013
    9,396
    113
    Hammond, Louisiana
    Emperor! Absolutely on the hot barrel vs cold!
    Every hunter I’ve ever met that ever shot a deer with a rifle made that shot on a cold barrel. When I zero I take a shot and make the prescribed correction. I won’t take another shot for quite a few minutes. I’ve watched guys chase that zero through a box of ammo in 5 minutes and never find the bull’s eye, lol.
     

    tallwalker

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    19   0   0
    Jul 24, 2012
    1,002
    38
    Covington, LA
    Emperor! Absolutely on the hot barrel vs cold!

    I have literally had icicles hanging off my sporter profile barrel and still been pretty confident about that one shot. The shivering shooter (me anyway) is by far the weak link! Hunting just has different rules than paper punching in almost every way. I do like shooting the same gun at the range though. I pretty much know what the POI pattern is as it heats up with consecutive rounds. Makes a kind of comma to the right. Not at all ideal for a good zero. Knowing that doesn’t do me much good for anything really, but it is interesting I guess.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
    Rating - 100%
    163   0   0
    Dec 31, 2013
    9,396
    113
    Hammond, Louisiana
    I have literally had icicles hanging off my sporter profile barrel and still been pretty confident about that one shot. The shivering shooter (me anyway) is by far the weak link! Hunting just has different rules than paper punching in almost every way. I do like shooting the same gun at the range though. I pretty much know what the POI pattern is as it heats up with consecutive rounds. Makes a kind of comma to the right. Not at all ideal for a good zero. Knowing that doesn’t do me much good for anything really, but it is interesting I guess.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    lol, I hear you Walker. Definitely gotta factor in shiver and numb fingers when making the shot.
     

    Barney88PDC

    SEND IT
    Rating - 100%
    34   0   0
    Jul 16, 2008
    2,994
    38
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Troedoff and Mickey are correct 100%. Others think they are. Ultimately you are not going to learn how to make that shot on the internet. You need to get with someone who knows how to do this which requires buliding a solid shooting position in an unconventional manner. Like PRS style shooting does. Look up LogIsland and he can teach you those techniques. Then get a FFP scope and a good range finder. Know your dope and go practice until that shot is easy. Ditch the 300WSM for practice for sure, all it's going to do is beat up your shoulder, cause you to develop a bad flinch and if shooting factory ammo run you broke. You could practice with a good 223 bolt rifle and get very dangerous at the distance easy. It's not going to happen in 1 range trip or probably even 10. Once you know proper technique you can dry fire practice at home and get better building solid positions without even shooting the rifle. All firing the rifle does is confirm you're dry firing correctly. If you miss the target and have the correct DOPE or hold, assuming the wind didn't blow you off, then it's you and your are doing something wrong.

    Ultimately most shooters / hunters want to be able to make that shot, few are willing to put in the time, money and effort to get there. Kind of like having a chiseled body.
     
    Last edited:

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