Red Flag Law Killed Maryland Gun Owner

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  • MOTOR51

    Well-Known Member
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    72   0   0
    Dec 23, 2008
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    I like how the YouTube guy justifies the homeowner going for his gun. From this guys actions it seems the law might have saved lives.


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    themcfarland

    tactical hangover
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    Dec 6, 2008
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    Destrehan
    I am curious to how the report is written and what the probable cause was..
    is it really a red flag? or just poorly chosen revenge from a scorned person?
     

    dougstump

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    One thing you can be 100% certain on.

    The news media will make the gun owner look like an ass every time in order to push the ultimate goal of no firearms in your hands...ever!!!

    The only time the news media strives for accuracy is the sports scores!
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    Dec 31, 2013
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    What an ass. The only thing worse than his actions was the clown in the video defending them.
    Curious as to what you would do if the cops showed up at your door out of the blue demanding to take your firearms then and there. Would you offer any protest at all? Do you think the old guy was an ass because he tried to refuse? I think the only thing he did wrong was open the door. I notice you’re in New Orleans. Did this already happen to you post Katrina?

    Worse than his actions were:
    1. the actions of the officers
    2. people passing judgement on the actions of people put in such predicaments.
    Tell us what you’d have done since you fall into category 2.
     
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    MOTOR51

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    Curious as to what you would do if the cops showed up at your door out of the blue demanding to take your firearms then and there. Would you offer any protest at all? Do you think the old guy was an ass because he tried to refuse? I think the only thing he did wrong was open the door. I notice you’re in New Orleans. Did this already happen to you post Katrina?

    Worse than his actions were:
    1. the actions of the officers
    2. people passing judgement on the actions of people put in such predicaments.
    Tell us what you’d have done since you fall into category 2.

    You know exactly what the actions of the officers were? If the police came to my house demanding my guns I would comply at that moment and then figure out what was going on after everything was calmed down. I can tell you putting up resistance is not the best answer and will not turn out good for anyone involved (LEO or Homeowner). And as far as not opening the door, do you think they are going away? Is it worth risking the safety of your family because you disagree with why they are there? And by the way, the guy in the video seems like a wingnut


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    enigmedic

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    Sep 14, 2010
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    Curious as to what you would do if the cops showed up at your door out of the blue demanding to take your firearms then and there. Would you offer any protest at all? Do you think the old guy was an ass because he tried to refuse? I think the only thing he did wrong was open the door. I notice you’re in New Orleans. Did this already happen to you post Katrina?

    Worse than his actions were:
    1. the actions of the officers
    2. people passing judgement on the actions of people put in such predicaments.
    Tell us what you’d have done since you fall into category 2.

    I will attempt to answer your questions in the order you presented them, keeping in mind that what I would do is academic. What THAT clown did is why the readers are here.
    Unfortunately that video link has everyone debating whether his actions were right or wrong, and the last thing I would want is that idiot that made the video supporting any argument of mine. He can only do you more harm than good, and cause you to lose supporters. What we should be looking at is whether a chain of events described actually happened; delving through witness statements, body cams, Etc. See how one moron can derail the whole issue?

    The protest, as you call it, I offer would come in the form of validating their paperwork. To ensure that the name, address, official who signed off and authorized the action are all valid or accurate. Many is the time that local law enforcement made clerical mistakes, some with tragic results. If there was an error in processing or executing the order, I would point it out. I would prefer to be outside of the residence at that point, as it puts me in public view and eliminates suspicions of going for a gun or destroying evidence. With the advent of cameras everywhere, politely asking who is in charge and pointing out the discrepancy would probably pacify things pretty quickly. Nobody wants to be Ship's Master on the Titanic, especially just before impact. If I was the officer in charge, I would heed any warnings of discrepancies in the paperwork, as I am responsible for what goes down on that scene. I would appreciate the subject pointing those things out if they were factual. As I said this is all a waste of time because we do not know what commands were given in that situation. Was he ordered outside, any particular posture, etc.
    As a citizen, the man (hereafter referred to as "Elvis") should have addressed his concerns for this law when the governing body instituted it, or through appeal after his particular incident.
    I have as much sympathy for him as I do all the little Moorish and Sovereign citizens who get yanked through a window, hospitalized, and incarcerated. When Dindu keeps reaching for his pockets in spite of commands to the contrary, I have no sympathy when he gets lit up. The gene pool is purged and we are a better society for it. There are no more saber tooth tigers to enforce natural selection, today we have motor vehicles firearms and drugs. The place to adjudicate a disagreement between a citizen and an officer is not on side the road. It is in a courtroom. Unfortunately, civics class has gone the way of the dodo bird, and given way to gender studies and the like.

    For the record I do not agree with these red flag policies. I believe they operate off of a presumption of guilt instead of innocence, and fall woefully short in the area of due process. Instead of defending the indefensible, and lamenting Elvis' death, you should learn from it and avoid making the same permanent mistake that he made. It does not sound like you did.
    In the absence of whatever affidavit was filled out to have the order granted, we will never know what behavior he exhibited to set the wheels in motion. Hell, maybe he was mouthing off on some gun forum about how he would never surrender to the police, how anyone who did so was weak or a fool, and the locals took that as a threat. Maybe he had a sinister screen name alluding to "Hail Mary" tactics, or publicly stated he would not grant entry so they came loaded for bear, expecting a dust-up. Who knows??
    As I said, when you decide to buy a gun you decide to assume the responsibility that comes with it. Most of us learn that when given our first BB gun or rimfire. Gun ownership comes with the responsibility of making decisions about deadly force, only Elvis found himself on the receiving end.

    Your next point was about not opening the door. What the hell kind of logic is that? Do you think it was a bunch of ****ing Jehovah's Witnesses with SMG's, who are going to turn around and go home because no one answered the door? It was the police department, the door is coming down. Now we go into a dynamic entry mode that is only going to exacerbate things. I realize this will get you canonized a Saint in the Branch Davidian Church, but it's not the way I wish to go.
    Equally counterproductive would be a protracted standoff, minus utilities for a week or so before the inevitable surrender or gunfight. Nobody becomes the fifth face on Mount Rushmore after eating spam to candle light and shitting in a bucket for a week. I prefer to die in a Cayman brothel with a bottle of rum in one hand and a bank statement in the other. Once again, way to go, world-beater, you showed them. Your final hour will be spent with your common-law wife fighting over the last pinch of chewing tobacco or a slim jim. And good luck with keeping your precious HiPoint "tactical" carbine and Rossi revolver, once you are a felon.
    I did not experience seizure or confiscation during Katrina to answer your question, quite the opposite. NG units had checked on me and mine, we had a wonderful working rapport with them, even had the occasion to do some bartering with them. Those poor bastards were real heroes of Katrina. They were not in air-conditioned government buildings; they were patrolling mounted and dismounted wearing long sleeves, some of whom just returned from a combat deployment.
    Now, since you went from narrative form to enumerated bullet points, I will too. I promised I would do my best to keep up with you, just take it easy on an old-timer.
    1- Since I received my education from parochial institutions, not an Antifa, Farrakhan, or Cenk Uygur, I will wait until we have all facts confirmed and presented. At this point none of us know what the officers did.
    2- I'm confident that I have already answered how I would handle it; that being a judicial process, be it civil or criminal. That is why we have a Supreme Court, not a Gladiator arena, in this great nation. What I can say, with absolute certainty, is that I would not engage them unless I was suicidal. Even in that case it may be a slow torturous route. Suicide by simple battery is not the way to do it, son. That is what separates me from them. Did Elvis and maybe a few family members honestly think they could defeat all of the members of law enforcement in a gunfight? Was he sequestered and unaware of how it worked out for David Koresh, Randy Weaver, and the SLA?

    There is nothing wrong with having an anti-establishment approach to civics, we are all descendants of men who shared those ideals. Just as long as it doesn't take on a junior high mentality. More often than not, these types are the ones who washed out of a civil service or government selection and screening process. It is a perverse version of "if you can't join them, beat them..or yourself." Sound familiar? "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..."
    Every yo-yo that I have ever met that had an axe to grind, at some point in their lives applied to and was declined from some government entity. More often than not, it was history or the psych phase of the vetting process that washed them out. Every neighborhood had one; the kid who was going to be a cop, soldier, or fireman for 20 years, then one day he can't stand them. Usually citing, "they suck man, they are Fascist!" Of course in my day it was "Communist." The cast and crew may change, but the script is always the same from generation to generation. Those that had a little more savvy marked it up to "politics."
    Awaiting your reply with bated breath...
     
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    jstokes1

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    Oct 9, 2012
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    You know exactly what the actions of the officers were? If the police came to my house demanding my guns I would comply at that moment and then figure out what was going on after everything was calmed down. I can tell you putting up resistance is not the best answer and will not turn out good for anyone involved (LEO or Homeowner). And as far as not opening the door, do you think they are going away? Is it worth risking the safety of your family because you disagree with why they are there? And by the way, the guy in the video seems like a wingnut


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    Annndddd ladies and gentleman, this is the reason why people were easily carted off to concentration camps. You would have made a great subject during 1930’s-40’s Germany. You might as well turn all your **** in now buddy.
     
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    MTregre

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    Jan 11, 2013
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    The county in FL that started this madness to date is still rocking a 100% approval per request by its judge. No court is that sure or accurate. LEO ask and that particular judge approves, simple as that.

    Being as such, I will give the benefit of doubt, to the homeowner in each of these cases.
    In nearly none of these cases is the court order backed up by investigation, doctor recommendation, or criminal background of the subject.
     

    enigmedic

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    Sep 14, 2010
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    JStokes-
    What do you think the correct course of action would be? Do you see the lone dipshit raising a call to arms and hordes of like-minded individuals come to his aide piecemeal in their pickup trucks?
    If these are the first shots in your revolution it better be a little more well scripted than that. The Lone Wolf approach is futile Hollywood fodder; the lone mental patient is suicidal and futile.
    I do not believe in any wholesale legal action: gun confiscation, DWI checkpoints, Terror watch lists, etc. I personally believe they violate the spirit of our law if not the letter of it. But the way to remedy it is through collective and legal action. Did anyone pursue the filing of an injunction? Did anyone challenge its legality in court? That is the way things are done here. As I said earlier, that is what separates us from BLM, Antifa, Greenpeace, and any other crackpot entity advocating ends justifying means. I personally do not see that as a solution.
    I genuinely mean it when I say I am curious as to what each person's recommendation would be in this situation. I've explained the way I would handle it, I would like to hear from others, providing it is sincere and fruitful.
    Tregre pointed out there is a 100% approval of applications from the local police. It seems that would provide damn good proof of a lack of judicial review. That ought to make it an open and shut slam dunk court case for the citizens of Florida that pursue injunctions or repeal.
    Unfortunately, every post or publication on this matter presents feeling, opinions, and emotion; none that I have found include facts, precedent, statistics, or empirical data. That makes it impossible to give an intelligent reply.
     
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    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    163   0   0
    Dec 31, 2013
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    Hammond, Louisiana
    You know exactly what the actions of the officers were? If the police came to my house demanding my guns I would comply at that moment and then figure out what was going on after everything was calmed down. I can tell you putting up resistance is not the best answer and will not turn out good for anyone involved (LEO or Homeowner). And as far as not opening the door, do you think they are going away? Is it worth risking the safety of your family because you disagree with why they are there? And by the way, the guy in the video seems like a wingnut


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    notice I didn’t mention the guy in the video.
    The cops actions killed someone, which is more and more the case nowadays. Argue all you want, a very significant number of police shootings, especially the ones happening in the dead peoples’ homes, are not the only solution and are a product of total lack of concern for human life over finding an easier route. Most get away with killing people when there were other options. A few do not. And there are real cops who don’t go straight to empty the magazine when someone doesn’t comply with every command. On the other end of the spectrum are those that somehow make the decision to kill no matter how many commands the victim complies with. When I hear the reasons why, how people just don’t understand what it’s like and so on, all I hear is excuses.
    I don’t put all cops in the killer category because I’m not a cop hater. But I’m not gonna sit and ignore the bad cops and the bad judgement and bad actions of any cop. If any of my words are inflammatory to you personally, try not to put yourself in any of those categories by being so quick to defend them. I don’t pass judgement on you for being a cop. You let us all know where you stand any time anything negative is said about any cop. Cops are just people. Some tend to forget that. When some decide that it’s gonba be their way or die, they’ve taken a life that they don’t care about. Many times a completely innocent person who the cop mistook for a criminal and who simply didn’t stand for their rights being trampled.

    You’ve given yourself away, asking me that question, and buddy, lemme tell you, if I have to make a life or death choice any time a cop comes into contact with me there’s a problem. Like there’s no other choice? Are you serious?
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    Enigmedic, way to much for me to read, but good effort, although I didn’t get much out of it. You should write guidelines for insurance companies.
    I’ll address the not opening the door comment. His opening the door in that moment exposed him. If he thought someone meant him ill, he should have got on the phone and ignored the door. Maybe the cops would have announced themselves thereafter and maybe he wouldn’t have reached for a gun maybe maybe and maybe. For the record, the dumbass in the video here is not the only account of what happened. Although the accounts are only what have come from police.
    Katrina... the old lady who got taken down in her home by cops when she told them she was fine. Do you think that needed to happen? Do you think law enforcement was correct in going house to house confiscating guns from folks just staying in their homes. I’m glad to know you disagree with the red flag laws. I was about to give up on you completely
     
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