Shooting update that the LSU players were involved in

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  • Saw

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    Gentlemen, I realize I have long since passed any value I could hope to gain by continuing this thread. I’m not looking for a win here because this is a pretty unwinnable topic. I hope everyone stays smart on our rights and laws that affect them.
     

    thperez1972

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    Agree. I believe earlier you said the phase related only to possession of a weapon. Sooooo....yeah.

    Yes, I said that in the context of someone suggesting the phrase related to sex in a car. I find it interesting to think someone would interpret that statement to mean you could legally be allowed to possess a weapon in a specific situation but could not legally use that weapon in that situation to defend yourself against a deadly threat.
     

    Saw

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    Yes, I said that in the context of someone suggesting the phrase related to sex in a car. I find it interesting to think someone would interpret that statement to mean you could legally be allowed to possess a weapon in a specific situation but could not legally use that weapon in that situation to defend yourself against a deadly threat.

    Agree. Can’t think of an instance where you wouldn’t legally be able to use a weapon you possess. I think the reason for that is probably Louisiana’s laws outlining what a justifiable homecide is (our law clerk does not have the reference right his sec)....and we come full circle as to what does my house have to do with it. Are we talking about conditions to what is a justifiable homecide? Are the conditions exactly the same as my home? If still yes, the. Why did we have the separate car jacker law to make it a crime of violence? If that law makes the situations exactly the same why isn’t it the extension of your home law? Does the extension phase pre date that? My questions are serious. Hopefully after 9 pages I’ve shown, other than being argumentative, I have a reasonable grasp of the laws that affect me here in LA. If so, the. It doesn’t seem like I’m reaching much with my dislike of the phrase and my disagreement with both it’s use and and defense of it’s use.
     

    Saw

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    ...and...if everyone is not defending use of that phrase but rather making fun of my problem with the phrase...I can live with that. I’m trying to get myself to tie this thing up.
     

    thperez1972

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    Agree. Can’t think of an instance where you wouldn’t legally be able to use a weapon you possess. I think the reason for that is probably Louisiana’s laws outlining what a justifiable homecide is (our law clerk does not have the reference right his sec)....and we come full circle as to what does my house have to do with it. Are we talking about conditions to what is a justifiable homecide? Are the conditions exactly the same as my home? If still yes, the. Why did we have the separate car jacker law to make it a crime of violence? If that law makes the situations exactly the same why isn’t it the extension of your home law? Does the extension phase pre date that? My questions are serious. Hopefully after 9 pages I’ve shown, other than being argumentative, I have a reasonable grasp of the laws that affect me here in LA. If so, the. It doesn’t seem like I’m reaching much with my dislike of the phrase and my disagreement with both it’s use and and defense of it’s use.

    In general, I would say the conditions are pretty close for the home and the car. Without the carjacking law, carjacking without a weapon seems to fall under simple robbery. Maybe the carjacking law was passed because of the importance of a car, after all, your car is an extension of your home. Sorry. Had to do it. Perhaps the carjacking law was needed. As I said, without a weapon being used by the thief, it was a simple robbery. But the victim could easily, and in my opinion rightfully so, be in fear of receiving great bodily harm or injury. If they defended themselves with what they felt was reasonable but deadly force, they could find themselves in legal trouble for shooting someone who was not committing a violent crime. The carjacking law is pretty similar to the home invasion law.

    §20. Justifiable homicide
    A. A homicide is justifiable:
    (1) When committed in self-defense by one who reasonably believes that he is in imminent danger of losing his life or receiving great bodily harm and that the killing is necessary to save himself from that danger.
    (2) When committed for the purpose of preventing a violent or forcible felony involving danger to life or of great bodily harm by one who reasonably believes that such an offense is about to be committed and that such action is necessary for its prevention. The circumstances must be sufficient to excite the fear of a reasonable person that there would be serious danger to his own life or person if he attempted to prevent the felony without the killing.
    (3) When committed against a person whom one reasonably believes to be likely to use any unlawful force against a person present in a dwelling or a place of business, or when committed against a person whom one reasonably believes is attempting to use any unlawful force against a person present in a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40), while committing or attempting to commit a burglary or robbery of such dwelling, business, or motor vehicle.
    (4)(a) When committed by a person lawfully inside a dwelling, a place of business, or a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40) when the conflict began, against a person who is attempting to make an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, or who has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, and the person committing the homicide reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the entry or to compel the intruder to leave the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle.
    (b) The provisions of this Paragraph shall not apply when the person committing the homicide is engaged, at the time of the homicide, in the acquisition of, the distribution of, or possession of, with intent to distribute a controlled dangerous substance in violation of the provisions of the Uniform Controlled Dangerous Substances Law.
     

    Saw

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    Agree 100%. We are dangerously close to being in violent agreement all around. I would even say your joking use of the phase proves it. Had to do it��. Don’t worry, someone will be along shortly to beat this horse.

    Wanna argue about the phrase castle doctrine? Just kidding.
     
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    Saw

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    Google The name Merrit Landry if you don’t know the name. I don’t know the guy or anyone that does. His situation a few years ago here in New Orleans was certainly thought provoking on this topic. No extension of the home phraseology used I’m aware of. I dont bring it up so that we can debate his case, but merely to illustrate the bigger picture of the knowing the your rights as they pertain to use of deadly force/justifiable homecide. The Landry situation also shows how sticky one of these situations can be. I would say to everyone reading this thread to be an advocate for everyone to be armed with knowledge and anything else appropriate.
     

    thperez1972

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    Google The name Merrit Landry if you don’t know the name. I don’t know the guy or anyone that does. His situation a few years ago here in New Orleans was certainly thought provoking on this topic. No extension of the home phraseology used I’m aware of. I dont bring it up so that we can debate his case, but merely to illustrate the bigger picture of the knowing the your rights as they pertain to use of deadly force/justifiable homecide. The Landry situation also shows how sticky one of these situations can be. I would say to everyone reading this thread to be an advocate for everyone to be armed with knowledge and anything else appropriate.

    It's interesting that you picked that case as I do not need to google the name. I was a detective with NOPD at the time and was one of the first officers to make that scene.
     

    thperez1972

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    So does that mean that your yard is an extention of your home?

    I have a feeling the focus of this thread may be about to change but that's a good question. A homicide is justifiable "when committed by a person lawfully inside a dwelling, a place of business, or a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40) when the conflict began, against a person who is attempting to make an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, or who has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, and the person committing the homicide reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the entry or to compel the intruder to leave the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle." So how does Louisiana law define "dwelling"?
     

    Saw

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    It's interesting that you picked that case as I do not need to google the name. I was a detective with NOPD at the time and was one of the first officers to make that scene.

    Whoa. You really know the story then. I guess I have some more insight on how you formed your opinions then.

    If you feel comfortable answering, do you feel the “dwelling” verbiage in the law would keep a DA from bringing charges in a similar case. I’m asking specifically about someone inside a high walled, gated property breaking into a car right outside the main home door. That is basically the scenario as I remember it.

    Asking for a friend.:)
     

    thperez1972

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    Whoa. You really know the story then. I guess I have some more insight on how you formed your opinions then.

    If you feel comfortable answering, do you feel the *dwelling* verbiage in the law would keep a DA from bringing charges in a similar case. I’m asking specifically about someone inside a high walled, gated property breaking into a car right outside the main home door. That is basically the scenario as I remember it.

    Asking for a friend.:)

    In that specific case, the DA didn't stop pursuing charges until the kid got arrested for a burglary after he recovered and the grand jury didn't return a true bill. So I don't think the "dwelling" verbiage had any effect on the decision because it never came to that. Landry stated he fired a shot because the kid reached for something so his argument was he was acting in self defense. My personal belief is the DA was hoping the grand jury did not return a true bill. They were in a tough spot and under societal pressure to continue to pursue the charges. But I also believe he would not have been found guilty if the case had gone to trial based on evidence that would have been presented.
     

    Saw

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    Yep. Copy all that on the Landry case. That is as I remember it.

    Let me ask a different way. In a hypothetical situation when a not so friendly fellow breaks into your home proper, most people agree if you use deadly force on that not so friendly fellow, you don’t have too much answering to do to John Q Law. If the same fellow is breaking into your car while you occupy it...we have at least a couple laws that favor the law abiding citizen if a deadly force even happens. How about in tweener land in the yard of my small high walled, gated *dwelling*? No reaching for a gun, no articulating fear of my life. Just there in my *dwelling* of my high walled yard and burglarizing my stuff.

    Naturally I’m curious on how your thoughts would relate to our dead horse phrase.
     

    thperez1972

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    Yep. Copy all that on the Landry case. That is as I remember it.

    Let me ask a different way. In a hypothetical situation when a not so friendly fellow breaks into your home proper, most people agree if you use deadly force on that not so friendly fellow, you don’t have too much answering to do to John Q Law. If the same fellow is breaking into your car while you occupy it...we have at least a couple laws that favor the law abiding citizen if a deadly force even happens. How about in tweener land in the yard of my small high walled, gated *dwelling*? No reaching for a gun, no articulating fear of my life. Just there in my *dwelling* of my high walled yard and burglarizing my stuff.

    Naturally I’m curious on how your thoughts would relate to our dead horse phrase.

    As an additional note on the Landry case, it was reported that the kid's fingerprints were found on a set of open shutters on the house.

    The first part of your hypothetical does not mention the victim being in the home at the time of the break in but I have to suspect that's what you meant. But I'm trying to figure out what situation you are asking about. Where is the property owner and what is the perp burglarizing? And what is the definition of your quoted "dwelling"?
     

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