Join BayouShooter For Free
CS

Page 13 of 18 FirstFirst ... 3121314 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 176
  1. #121
    All or nothing

    Gold Member

    User Info Menu



    Thatís not true Motor, just the dirty ones. However many you think that may be.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Contrary to popular belief, a head shot is not necessarily a guaranteed kill shot....but it sure does take the fight out of 'em.

    and if one in every 100,000,000 M&M's contained enough cyanide to kill a person, the Mars candy company would be forced by public outcry to correct itóóó
    Bangswitch

  2. #122
    On Target

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post


    That’s not true Motor, just the dirty ones. However many you think that may be.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Do you agree with me that bad apples statistically low. I’m not saying without consequence just statistically low. Follow me for a minute. I’m not discounting your thoughts but hoping I can justify them.

    My point is statistics don’t define relevance. If there’s a 1/5 chance of rain the umbrella likely stays at home. Conversely if there was a 1/1000 chance I personally may be shot at I would be looking into body armor.

    Odds on the lottery 1/302,600,000 but I still buy a ticket every once in a while.
    Last edited by Bangswitch; January 12th, 2019 at 09:38 AM. Reason: Wanted a happier example

  3. #123
    All or nothing

    Gold Member

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    Do you agree with me that bad apples statistically low. I’m not saying without consequence just statistically low. Follow me for a minute. I’m not discounting your thoughts but hoping I can justify them.

    My point is statistics don’t define relevance. If there’s a 1/5 chance of rain the umbrella likely stays at home. Conversely if there was a 1/1000 chance I personally may be shot at I would be looking into body armor.

    Odds on the lottery 1/302,600,000 but I still buy a ticket every once in a while.
    I don’t disagree at all brother. And I’m not a statistician. But I’m a very good estimator of a great many things. I notice and pay attention to patterns. And I absolutely understand that to become a LEO, most applicants must have a strong sense of commitment to the greater good. I’ve got family, both living and not, who served in law enforcement from federal to state to city. I worked for a Sheriff’s dept for 15 years. I laugh when anyone calls me a cop hater because I find ignorance funny.
    What I’ve been saying all along, and what I’ve already explained is that the one bad apple theme has become rotten and lost in the bushel of other bad apples. I won’t ask how many is enough because we reached critical mass some time ago. When there are daily incidents of brutality and very often innocent people killed by the actions of a bad apple it’s past time for law enforcement on the whole to hit the reset button... that includes all the good apples maybe not being so offended when people react to the brutality, death and dare I say the high numbers of monetary settlements paid out to these individuals and their families at the expense of the tax payer. Maybe it’s time for the good apples to separate themselves from the bad. Maybe it’s time the higher ups in law enforcement set a better example than excusing so many of the bad apples as justified in their actions when they are not. There needs to be a clear understanding of when a LEO is blatantly violating a person’s rights without any just cause. We do have a constitution and a bill of rights to use as a guide. It’s not like there’s that much grey area. The old day in court don’t count for shit after an undeserved ass whooping, invasion of your home or a bullet to the face now does it...

    Btw, borrowed the M&M thing for my sig line, thank you.
    Last edited by Magdump; January 12th, 2019 at 10:08 AM.
    Contrary to popular belief, a head shot is not necessarily a guaranteed kill shot....but it sure does take the fight out of 'em.

    and if one in every 100,000,000 M&M's contained enough cyanide to kill a person, the Mars candy company would be forced by public outcry to correct itóóó
    Bangswitch

  4. #124
    Marksman

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    I know in new and all but...
    We get you are LE of some sort or are very close to some(s) are is, and itís offensive to you that people search out the situtions that cast any LE in a bad light, this is just as counterproductive. Wouldnít it have been more productive if you found 5 videos of officers saving puppies or kittens?
    No it wouldnít have, and Austin already did that. My point is that no one in 12 pages said the deputy in the original article was in the right but here we are.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Censored by "them"

  5. #125
    Marksman

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    I donít disagree at all brother. And Iím not a statistician. But Iím a very good estimator of a great many things. I notice and pay attention to patterns. And I absolutely understand that to become a LEO, most applicants must have a strong sense of commitment to the greater good. Iíve got family, both living and not, who served in law enforcement from federal to state to city. I worked for a Sheriffís dept for 15 years. I laugh when anyone calls me a cop hater because I find ignorance funny.
    What Iíve been saying all along, and what Iíve already explained is that the one bad apple theme has become rotten and lost in the bushel of other bad apples. I wonít ask how many is enough because we reached critical mass some time ago. When there are daily incidents of brutality and very often innocent people killed by the actions of a bad apple itís past time for law enforcement on the whole to hit the reset button... that includes all the good apples maybe not being so offended when people react to the brutality, death and dare I say the high numbers of monetary settlements paid out to these individuals and their families at the expense of the tax payer. Maybe itís time for the good apples to separate themselves from the bad. Maybe itís time the higher ups in law enforcement set a better example than excusing so many of the bad apples as justified in their actions when they are not. There needs to be a clear understanding of when a LEO is blatantly violating a personís rights without any just cause. We do have a constitution and a bill of rights to use as a guide. Itís not like thereís that much grey area. The old day in court donít count for shit after an undeserved ass whooping, invasion of your home or a bullet to the face now does it...

    Btw, borrowed the M&M thing for my sig line, thank you.
    So now there is daily incidents of cops killing innocent people? You have tinfoil on your windows at home? I also noticed you said you ďworkedĒ for a sheriff so Iím going to safely assume you were never an actual deputy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Censored by "them"

  6. #126
    -Administrator-
    Make your own luck

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    I don’t disagree at all brother. And I’m not a statistician. But I’m a very good estimator of a great many things. I notice and pay attention to patterns. And I absolutely understand that to become a LEO, most applicants must have a strong sense of commitment to the greater good. I’ve got family, both living and not, who served in law enforcement from federal to state to city. I worked for a Sheriff’s dept for 15 years. I laugh when anyone calls me a cop hater because I find ignorance funny.
    What I’ve been saying all along, and what I’ve already explained is that the one bad apple theme has become rotten and lost in the bushel of other bad apples. I won’t ask how many is enough because we reached critical mass some time ago. When there are daily incidents of brutality and very often innocent people killed by the actions of a bad apple it’s past time for law enforcement on the whole to hit the reset button... that includes all the good apples maybe not being so offended when people react to the brutality, death and dare I say the high numbers of monetary settlements paid out to these individuals and their families at the expense of the tax payer. Maybe it’s time for the good apples to separate themselves from the bad. Maybe it’s time the higher ups in law enforcement set a better example than excusing so many of the bad apples as justified in their actions when they are not. There needs to be a clear understanding of when a LEO is blatantly violating a person’s rights without any just cause. We do have a constitution and a bill of rights to use as a guide. It’s not like there’s that much grey area. The old day in court don’t count for shit after an undeserved ass whooping, invasion of your home or a bullet to the face now does it...

    Btw, borrowed the M&M thing for my sig line, thank you.
    What'd you do for the Sherriff department?

    With the influx of cameras and a news media that loves to paint bad pictures, everything is blown out of proportion. If you look at the news, you would think that crime is up all across the country, but many statistics show otherwise. More coverage (due to everyone having cameras and being able to show their ass on FB/YouTube) doesn't mean more instances.

    You may be a good estimator and pay attention to patterns, but the patterns that you are exposed to are HEAVILY biased and based on what you are exposed to. Statistics that look at the full population of occurrences will be MUCH more accurate than you noticing patterns based on what I would guesstimate to be less than 0.00001% of the data.

    If you look at ALL videos of traffic stops on YouTube, I would venture to guess that a significant proportion of them involve something occurring that you may not like. But on the flipside, why would videos be uploaded of everyday traffic stops with no issues?

    TLDR: You are speculating that an entire (thankless) profession has a plethora of problems based on bias and a lack of data.
    -- Austin

    "There is no "i" in team but there is in win. "
    --Michael Jordan


    Failing to plan is planning to fail.

  7. #127
    Marksman

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    I donít disagree at all brother. And Iím not a statistician. But Iím a very good estimator of a great many things. I notice and pay attention to patterns. And I absolutely understand that to become a LEO, most applicants must have a strong sense of commitment to the greater good. Iíve got family, both living and not, who served in law enforcement from federal to state to city. I worked for a Sheriffís dept for 15 years. I laugh when anyone calls me a cop hater because I find ignorance funny.
    What Iíve been saying all along, and what Iíve already explained is that the one bad apple theme has become rotten and lost in the bushel of other bad apples. I wonít ask how many is enough because we reached critical mass some time ago. When there are daily incidents of brutality and very often innocent people killed by the actions of a bad apple itís past time for law enforcement on the whole to hit the reset button... that includes all the good apples maybe not being so offended when people react to the brutality, death and dare I say the high numbers of monetary settlements paid out to these individuals and their families at the expense of the tax payer. Maybe itís time for the good apples to separate themselves from the bad. Maybe itís time the higher ups in law enforcement set a better example than excusing so many of the bad apples as justified in their actions when they are not. There needs to be a clear understanding of when a LEO is blatantly violating a personís rights without any just cause. We do have a constitution and a bill of rights to use as a guide. Itís not like thereís that much grey area. The old day in court donít count for shit after an undeserved ass whooping, invasion of your home or a bullet to the face now does it....
    Ok, lets look at estimates, stats, and trends, all at once.

    There are 18,000 law enforcement agencies in the US. Assume that they each have 10 interactions with citizens each day. That's 180,000 interactions a day, across the country, which is probably low. That is 65,700,000 - almost 66 million- interactions per year. Pulling figures from a Chicago Tribune story about the numbers of gun deaths in the last couple of years, says that police fatally shot around 1000 people per year in 2015, 2016, 2017.

    So, 1000 killed by police within 66 million citizen interactions. High stakes, but relatively low number of deaths. Of those deaths, in the last 2 years, 735-ish were armed. Ok, the majority of those were probably justified, I think most of us would agree. So, that leaves 265 shooting deaths out of 66 million interactions. That is statistically insignificant. Some of them may have been accidental, some may have been due to poor training, some of them may have been from a "bad apple" cop. But, that would even further reduce bad apple shootings.

    And again, any life taken is a huge deal and even worse when it is not justified, but it is not realistic to say that there is a critical mass of bad apple cops these days. There is a trend today of media outlets putting out a narrative of their choosing, and a lot of that narrative deals with showing LE in a bad light. There is also lot of money to be made and power to be acquired by activists and politicians related to that platform. So, if you are estimating the number of bad apples based on media reports, then I can see how you would come to this conclusion, but I believe it is flawed.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...106-story.html
    Last edited by krotsman; January 12th, 2019 at 02:52 PM.

  8. #128
    Marksman

    User Info Menu

    Cop shoots tiny chihuahua in owners yard on video

    Quote Originally Posted by krotsman View Post
    Ok, lets look at estimates, stats, and trends, all at once.

    There are 18,000 law enforcement agencies in the US. Assume that they each have 10 interactions with citizens each day. That's 180,000 interactions a day, across the country, which is probably low. That is 65,700,000 - almost 66 million- interactions per year. Pulling figures from a Chicago Tribune story about the numbers of gun deaths in the last couple of years, says that police fatally shot around 1000 people per year in 2015, 2016, 2017.

    So, 1000 killed by police within 66 million citizen interactions. High stakes, but relatively low number of deaths. Of those deaths, in the last 2 years, 735-ish were armed. Ok, the majority of those were probably justified, I think most of us would agree. So, that leaves 265 shooting deaths out of 66 million interactions. That is statistically insignificant. Some of them may have been accidental, some may have been due to poor training, some of them may have been from a "bad apple" cop. But, that would even further reduce bad apple shootings.

    And again, any life taken is a huge deal and even worse when it is not justified, but it is not realistic to say that there is a critical mass of bad apple cops these days. There is a trend today of media outlets putting out a narrative of their choosing, and a lot of that narrative deals with showing LE in a bad light. There is also lot of money to be made and power to be acquired by activists and politicians related to that platform. So, if you are estimating the number of bad apples based on media reports, then I can see how you would come to this conclusion, but I believe it is flawed.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...106-story.html
    Do you think he uses this same method of judging based on YouTube and news articles to justify gun bans?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Censored by "them"

  9. #129
    All or nothing

    Gold Member

    User Info Menu

    Austin, Krotsman, I appreciate your efforts. I seem to keep running into the same defense and that’s how low the numbers actually are. The number of innocents killed are actually low compared to the number of encounters...smh.
    If I scratched my head and searched every database and media outlet I could find and only came up with a dozen or so senseless, unwarranted deaths in as many years at the hands of law enforcement, being a sensible person I’d have to agree with your thinking. But that isn’t the case. The numbers are far greater. The number of errors made where a LEO decided to blunder full tilt into a situation that they caused until somebody was down and cuffed, shot or not. I’m talking wrong person, wrong house, wrong assumption, wrong suspicion, wrong place, wrong time, wrong wrong wrong. The numbers are greater than acceptable to me. And I know they will only grow with the current attitudes toward the public by LEO’s. I don’t know how many share the belief that they don’t need to wait and be sure about anything before proceeding to slam granny down to the pavement or tase grandpaw who’s nearly passed out at the wheel and unable to comply. The sheer expectation that if you do not waive your rights and do whatever I say when I say it or I will beat you down and cause you physical harm and demand that you hold completely motionless while I inflict this pain and I’ll be within my badge and gun given rights... lawful orders? Are they really lawful? Mostly they are not. I can understand how a cop might fear or expect resistance when they decide to operate in such a manner. Because they know it’s wrong.
    As far as the numbers go, they’re high enough to cause many law abiding citizens to fear the police, lose trust in the police, and for those who believe you should be prepared to surrender you rights completely any time a LEO approaches you, ask yourself why that is.
    The numbers are too high. Too high to only deal with one case at a time after the fact. Too high to dismiss any of it at this point. It’s only gonna get worse.
    Last edited by Magdump; January 12th, 2019 at 05:53 PM.
    Contrary to popular belief, a head shot is not necessarily a guaranteed kill shot....but it sure does take the fight out of 'em.

    and if one in every 100,000,000 M&M's contained enough cyanide to kill a person, the Mars candy company would be forced by public outcry to correct itóóó
    Bangswitch

  10. #130
    -Administrator-
    Make your own luck

    User Info Menu

    You seem to have formed an opinion based on a complete lack of research into actual data and now want to argue with those of us who have actually done our homework. Let's go through you post:


    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    Austin, Krotsman, I appreciate your efforts. I seem to keep running into the same defense and that’s how low the numbers actually are. The number of innocents killed are actually low compared to the number of encounters...smh.
    Please, supply some data that shows otherwise. Simply stating that the numbers are high because the media covers XYZ is not data. If you look solely at what the media (including people on YT/FB) report, the world would appear to be a place with no happiness, fires everywhere, pollution everywhere, and protests, constantly.

    If I scratched my head and searched every database and media outlet I could find and only came up with a dozen or so senseless, unwarranted deaths in as many years at the hands of law enforcement, being a sensible person I’d have to agree with your thinking. But that isn’t the case. The numbers are far greater.
    How can you make this claim without data to support it? Secondly, what in your opinion is an acceptable margin of error for police interactions with the public?

    The number of errors made where a LEO decided to blunder full tilt into a situation that they caused until somebody was down and cuffed, shot or not. I’m talking wrong person, wrong house, wrong assumption, wrong suspicion, wrong place, wrong time, wrong wrong wrong. The numbers are greater than acceptable to me.
    What are the numbers? If there are 1000 errors for every 100 million interactions (0.001% error rate), is that too much?

    And I know they will only grow with the current attitudes toward the public by LEO’s.
    Maybe the public needs to learn to not be dicks to LEOs. Common sense would dictate that not being a jerk would likely help one get treated better (in any situation in life).

    I don’t know how many share the belief that they don’t need to wait and be sure about anything before proceeding to slam granny down to the pavement or tase grandpaw who’s nearly passed out at the wheel and unable to comply.
    You don't know...so why bring it up? Do you really think that outside of maybe a very, very, very small number of the aforementioned bad apples that someone is going to "slam granny" on the ground? C'mon now, that's reaching.

    The sheer expectation that if you do not waive your rights and do whatever I say when I say it or I will beat you down and cause you physical harm and demand that you hold completely motionless while I inflict this pain and I’ll be within my badge and gun given rights... lawful orders? Are they really lawful? Mostly they are not.
    I think what you are referring to is people following the law. If a cop gives someone a lawful order, what do you expect to happen when they intentionally do not follow said order? Rights are based in law. The law also says you have to listen to an officer's lawful order. How often do you think police are really giving people unlawful orders...?

    I can understand how a cop might fear or expect resistance when they decide to operate in such a manner. Because they know it’s wrong.
    As far as the numbers go, they’re high enough to cause many law-abiding citizens to fear the police, lose trust in the police, and for those who believe you should be prepared to surrender your rights completely any time a LEO approaches you, ask yourself why that is.
    It's not surrendering rights. It's called complying within the law. Big difference.


    The numbers are too high. Too high to only deal with one case at a time after the fact. Too high to dismiss any of it at this point. It’s only gonna get worse.
    What numbers? How many cases are there? What's your solution to the "bad apple" problem? Please let me know and we can apply it to a TON of professions and make a lot of money while helping a lot of people.
    -- Austin

    "There is no "i" in team but there is in win. "
    --Michael Jordan


    Failing to plan is planning to fail.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •