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  • MOTOR51

    Well-Known Member
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    Dec 23, 2008
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    Wow, more than $75k.. I wonder what the city offered to settle? Looks like the dude made out pretty good.

    Yeah and judging by his videos he’s spending it wisely. I see him driving a Porsche and drinking and gambling. Municipalities almost always settle cases out of court.


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    Bangswitch

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    Yeah and judging by his videos he’s spending it wisely. I see him driving a Porsche and drinking and gambling. Municipalities almost always settle cases out of court.


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    Lol I checked out that channel too. I guess it takes all kinds, but the voice from the video didn’t sound the same as the guy who owns the channel. I may be wrong. I never trust a man who wears eyeliner and nail polish, but some make some killer music.
     
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    ozarkpugs

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    Apr 7, 2018
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    US Zanoni mo
    Ok we are two pages in and no one has brought the facts so I’m going to speculate what happened prior to film rolling. If I get something wrong please feel free to correct me.

    On a fateful January evening (lady told officer happy New Year, yeah I’m a regular Sherlock Holmes) three people notified an officer who was moonlighting at Whole Foods that a regular patron was wearing a gun outside of his pants. Upon hearing a private citizen dared to carry a gun in his store, he sprang into action. He snuck up behind the guy and put him in a chokehold and forcefully removed his (I assume) holstered weapon.

    Ok the elephant in the room: I’m carrying a weapon and someone jumps on my back and begins trying to take control of my weapon, I fighting for my life because I want to go home to my family. Police and bad guys both possess vocal cords so saying police while you pounce on me doesn’t give me any warm fuzzies. And since police rarely ever pounce on a person minding their own business, I’m even less inclined to feel safe. Officer Bowser was quite lucky things didn’t go south. His brovado (false or otherwise) towards the end of the video claiming to have disarmed another officer in a similar manner tells me he’s either really dangerous or really full of himself.

    Anyone who knows the case please correct me wherever I’m incorrect.
    I missed the choke hold part , I always try to see both sides and having all the facts sometimes makes one side clearer . If the Leo thought the man could be a threat I understand if the man is a regular he should have known he could not carry which implies he went off the deep end or was looking for a lawsuit . If the Leo knew for a fact he was a loose cannon he he should have been more physical and if he reasoned it was a stunt maybe he should have been a little more civil with him . Bottom line is even if the city had to pay $100,000 if the Leo was unsure of intentions it was worth it . Big no guns allowed signs would have changed everything . Our rights begin and end with other people's rights . That said I have a problem with local governments rights to govern tromping on my rights recognized in the bill of rights.

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    Bangswitch

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    I missed the choke hold part , I always try to see both sides and having all the facts sometimes makes one side clearer . If the Leo thought the man could be a threat I understand if the man is a regular he should have known he could not carry which implies he went off the deep end or was looking for a lawsuit . If the Leo knew for a fact he was a loose cannon he he should have been more physical and if he reasoned it was a stunt maybe he should have been a little more civil with him . Bottom line is even if the city had to pay $100,000 if the Leo was unsure of intentions it was worth it . Big no guns allowed signs would have changed everything . Our rights begin and end with other people's rights . That said I have a problem with local governments rights to govern tromping on my rights recognized in the bill of rights.

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    I urge you to rewatch the video and/or read the brief. Now the video is a little one sided but the officer had plenty of opportunity to deny or correct the guy while he was on camera. He had no problem *setting him straight* on his and the city’s god-like powers. Was this guy a look at me I’m gonna *support the second amendment* kind of guy? I don’t know I’ve never met him but had he been one of those types he would likely have been running film the whole time and anticipating a confrontation. I’m not a fan of open carry for a couple reasons mostly because too many people find it foreign and get really nervous. Nervousness if unchecked quickly turns to irrational behavior, and quite frankly there is already too much of that going on in our society.
     

    krotsman

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    Aug 2, 2012
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    So, here's a devil's advocate question... If LA is an open carry state, and the store does not have a no firearms sign posted, shouldn't you have a reasonable expectation of not being ambushed by LE if you are open carrying, just because people feel uncomfortable? Clearly, even in the kingdom of NO, since he got paid for his inconvenience.

    I know it could be seen as an officer safety issue, but using that logic, every LEO/civilian encounter could be seen as such and the same tactics used.

    Motor51 - From a training perspective, how would you suggest that something like that be handled?
     
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    Suburbazine

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    To be fair, in LA you can be trespassed for any/all reasons if the property owner doesn't want you there. It's NOT a stipulation that they be the mouthpiece that tells you. While the officer's approach may (was exceedingly) have been heavy handed, if he's trespassing someone who's armed I'm not going to disagree with some degree of force being involved. Especially when doofus is blissfully unaware of his surroundings. Saying "the officer could have asked" is about the equivalent of saying "He will ask me with his weapon drawn" and that's not a great approach in a supermarket. According to doofus, the officer did identify himself prior to engaging him, but was not believed because he was blissfully unaware a uniformed officer was next to him.

    Doofus got his payday because what the officer did beyond the initial contact was egregriously unprofessional and clearly promoted deficient knowledge of state laws.
     
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    Bangswitch

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    To be fair, in LA you can be trespassed for any/all reasons if the property owner doesn't want you there. It's NOT a stipulation that they be the mouthpiece that tells you. While the officer's approach may (was exceedingly) have been heavy handed, if he's trespassing someone who's armed I'm not going to disagree with some degree of force being involved. Especially when doofus is blissfully unaware of his surroundings. Saying "the officer could have asked" is about the equivalent of saying "He will ask me with his weapon drawn" and that's not a great approach in a supermarket. According to doofus, the officer did identify himself prior to engaging him, but was not believed because he was blissfully unaware a uniformed officer was next to him.

    Doofus got his payday because what the officer did beyond the initial contact was egregriously unprofessional and clearly promoted deficient knowledge of state laws.

    Its my understanding for a person to be "trespassing" in a public place (even a privately own public place) someone has to tell them that they are no longer welcome, or in the case of a firearm post a sign letting you know they are not welcome. If no one told the guy to leave and the officer ID himself and proceeded to disarm him its not just heavy handed. If the officer addressed the man and said hey guns aren't allowed in this store and the man didn't respond with "oh I'll leave" and actually leave then he is in fact remaining there unlawfully which is trespassing, and the use of force may be required. Skipping that step could have put a lot of people at risk. As I mentioned previously police don't normally pounce on guys minding their own business, so if he was identifying himself while simultaneously choking him and grabbing for his gun he is lucky he wasn't met with severer escalation of force.

    I'm not sure where you are getting Monaco said the officer id'ed himself prior to engagement but here is that section of legal brief. If you know more than whats in the brief and the video would you care to share?

    10. At the time Mr. Monaco entered the Whole Foods Market, there were no signs at any entrance or exit of the building indicating that Whole Foods prohibited firearms.
    11. Mr. Monaco had previously shopped at Whole Foods Market many times without incident and was known by its management and employees.
    12. At no time prior to January 5, 2013 had Mr. Monaco been instructed that the carrying of firearms was prohibited in Whole Foods Market, nor was he aware of any such store or corporate policy being adopted by Whole Foods.
    13. On information and belief, Sgt. Bowser was working a security detail at Whole Foods Market on the evening of January 5, 2013.
    14. Sometime after entering Whole Foods Market, Mr. Monaco approached the deli counter in the rear of the supermarket to order some cheese. As he was being handed his purchase, he wassuddenly, and without any warning, grabbed from behind by Sgt. Bowser who instructed him not tomove. Sgt. Bowser wrapped one arm around Mr. Monaco’s throat while he pulled Mr. Monaco’s gun from his holster with his opposite hand
     
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    ozarkpugs

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    Apr 7, 2018
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    I agree with you and reaching for cheese is not a threatening move .He said he had been there several times and no one said no guns allowed I don't know if it says he was armed those times but you would think it was implied if not stated . I hope he used some of the money to purchase a good ccw rig . I can't say if he was looking for a confrontation or not so I have to give him the benefit of doubt but you and I agree better to not draw attention to your self.
    I urge you to rewatch the video and/or read the brief. Now the video is a little one sided but the officer had plenty of opportunity to deny or correct the guy while he was on camera. He had no problem *setting him straight* on his and the city’s god-like powers. Was this guy a look at me I’m gonna *support the second amendment* kind of guy? I don’t know I’ve never met him but had he been one of those types he would likely have been running film the whole time and anticipating a confrontation. I’m not a fan of open carry for a couple reasons mostly because too many people find it foreign and get really nervous. Nervousness if unchecked quickly turns to irrational behavior, and quite frankly there is already too much of that going on in our society.

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    Bangswitch

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    I agree with you and reaching for cheese is not a threatening move .He said he had been there several times and no one said no guns allowed I don't know if it says he was armed those times but you would think it was implied if not stated . I hope he used some of the money to purchase a good ccw rig . I can't say if he was looking for a confrontation or not so I have to give him the benefit of doubt but you and I agree better to not draw attention to your self.

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    Agreed concealed is the safer approach.
     

    MOTOR51

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    So, here's a devil's advocate question... If LA is an open carry state, and the store does not have a no firearms sign posted, shouldn't you have a reasonable expectation of not being ambushed by LE if you are open carrying, just because people feel uncomfortable? Clearly, even in the kingdom of NO, since he got paid for his inconvenience.

    I know it could be seen as an officer safety issue, but using that logic, every LEO/civilian encounter could be seen as such and the same tactics used.

    Motor51 - From a training perspective, how would you suggest that something like that be handled?

    Is this a setup? It’s weird to see someone on here actually ask a LEO his opinion on a subject regarding a LEO, LOL. To be honest it would depend on the totality of the circumstances so it’s hard to answer specifically. For whatever reason this 25yr veteran, who works in a violent city felt this was appropriate for this situation. Who am I to argue how he perceived this situation. I will tell you I have dealt with numerous OC people and also others I could tell were carrying concealed before they told me. I have yet to have to use the technique we are taking about in the video. If I thought the guy was about to rob the place I would confront him with my sidearm already drawn if I was worried about him getting the drop on me. If it was just a goofball like seen in the other videos of this guy I think I would have handled it outside by either asking him to leave or if he was checking out waiting for him to exit on his own. A shootout in the middle of a grocery store is a very last resort due to obvious reasons. This is why I urge all the businesses I work details at to let the officer sit in the parking lot by the front door, better to stop riff raff outside before it gets inside.


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    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    Dec 31, 2013
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    Hammond, Louisiana
    I do believe with no sign on the door that concealed carry would have been the smarter option.

    I wonder if the LEO and citizen had met in the street if the LEO’s actions would have been similar.

    I think there is a time and place for open carry. I’ve carried openly on my property since long before adulthood. I’ve never had anyone approach me about it. I carry concealed away from home and its much the same. Never been approached. Still, nice payday for the citizen.
     
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    Suburbazine

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    Oct 21, 2008
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    I'm not sure where you are getting Monaco said the officer id'ed himself prior to engagement but here is that section of legal brief. If you know more than whats in the brief and the video would you care to share?

    Monaco himself stated after the fact that the officer did indeed say "POLICE" and then laid a hand on his sidearm. He further stated that he did not believe that it was an officer and not a thug disarming him. The issue with the video is that he picks up after the initial snatch and grab and nobody got to see exactly what happened.

    Everything after that was a travesty though. You can get your trespass warning and escort off the property at the same time- there is no requirement for you to not be babysat on your way out. But being arm barred out is not a voluntary exit.
     
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    ozarkpugs

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    This could go on for pages ,IMHO Motor 51 was a stand up guy for answering and his answer was spot on . The only thing I can add is the problem I have with OC is you may be lucky enough to interact with only Leo who are as sensible as MOTOR51 but again you may run into a pooch shooter . Just something to think about .

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    LACamper

    oldbie
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    4   0   0
    Jun 3, 2007
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    Metairie, LA
    Hmmm.... that's not a bad deal. I may have to start OC'ing. $75K for getting put in a choke hold and disarmed is not a bad deal. Might buy me a nice motorcycle (o_o) . OTOH, every time one of these OC attention seeking schmucks pulls this another store puts up a no carrying sign and the people with CCW's can't legally carry there any more. We're going to run out of stores...
     
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