Shotguns for home defense

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  • ozarkpugs

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    That is likely what the case would be if the perps were some young punks thinking they can sneak in and grab or that you are a easy victim and don't expect a fight but crack heads and meth zombies are not known for logical thinking . Expect the worst hope for the best . Hopefully shoot one the rest runs hopefully one shot stops it but I would not bet my life on it and I'm pretty sure you don't neither.
    I'm 72 yoa, been at 'this' since early 70s, was a deputy when 38 special revolvers was the norm, I know how to shoot and not worried about anyone with a Hi pert unless theres about 25 of them.. When you splader the guts of the first one, do you really think the others will say "OK i'm next", they will be assholes and elbows looking for the way they came in...

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    Bangswitch

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    You two live a life of delusion.

    I think I occupy the exact opposite of delusion. Last I checked, bad guys have the same fight or flight instinct as every other breathing organism. Most breathing organisms choose to run from gun fire. I suppose I’m not taking into account the hopped up meth-heads, but even dopers tend to run from gunfire.
     
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    MOTOR51

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    I think y’all are overlooking a big factor in expecting the criminal to automatically flee at the sound of gunfire. A lot of these criminals are not scared of gunshots. It might be your first gunfight but probably not theirs.


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    DBW03

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    I think I occupy the exact opposite of delusion. Last I checked, bad guys have the same fight or flight instinct as every other breathing organism. Most breathing organisms choose to run from gun fire. I suppose I’m not taking into account the hopped up meth-heads, but even dopers tend to run from gunfire.

    Whatever you say.

    Fantasizing about the day you play cowboy is delusional.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think y’all are overlooking a big factor in expecting the criminal to automatically flee at the sound of gunfire. A lot of these criminals are not scared of gunshots. It might be your first gunfight but probably not theirs.


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    Expecting them to run from gunfire is silly. They would have already ran off at the sound of me racking my boomstick.
     

    ozarkpugs

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    Whatever you say.

    Fantasizing about the day you play cowboy is delusional.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Expecting them to run from gunfire is silly. They would have already ran off at the sound of me racking my boomstick.
    Which opens up a whole new can of worms ,why don't you already have one in the chamber and why give away your position by racking one when you don't believe noise is a deterrent . Not trying to argue but I consider this brainstorming . What one Pearson considers proper technique another sees ad folly . If you had set quietly in the dark you could take aim with a .38 and take careful aim and end his career like Danny Abear . Myself I will try to go undetected until I can gain the upper hand but with enough power and enough back u rounds to vacate of any "friends". Of course all the aforementioned defences beet Joe Bidens two shots in the air approach.

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    Bangswitch

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    Whatever you say.

    Fantasizing about the day you play cowboy is delusional.

    I think you misunderstand me greatly. It’s not about playing cowboy. I own and shoot a lot of guns. I never mentioned my preference only the fact that defending my home or myself from multiple attackers wouldn’t look anything like a Jason Statum movie, in other words gunfights typically don’t last long. When the bullets start flying people run or return fire, and if there are multiple bad-asses, I better hope I have good cover.

    That kind of sounds the opposite of paying cowboy. I understand there are plenty of hardened criminals who have been in gun fights, but the odds of me getting into a gunfight are extremely low and even lower that a barrel chested pipe-hittin gunfighter will commit a home invasion at my house. Chances are if someone breaks in a couple rounds from my 9mm pointed in the direction of the dirtbag would likely send them out the door. Maybe it’s where I live or my white privilege (joke) but I don’t get many badasses in my neighborhood. The ones that do wear/wore the Stars and Stripes on their shoulder. That’s just my thinking. If you disagree it’s a free country.
     

    DBW03

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    Which opens up a whole new can of worms ,why don't you already have one in the chamber and why give away your position by racking one when you don't believe noise is a deterrent . Not trying to argue but I consider this brainstorming . What one Pearson considers proper technique another sees ad folly . If you had set quietly in the dark you could take aim with a .38 and take careful aim and end his career like Danny Abear . Myself I will try to go undetected until I can gain the upper hand but with enough power and enough back u rounds to vacate of any "friends". Of course all the aforementioned defences beet Joe Bidens two shots in the air approach.

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    Yea... that was sarcasm, but your response is the funniest thing I’ve read all week. Thanks for that.

    I think you misunderstand me greatly. It’s not about playing cowboy. I own and shoot a lot of guns. I never mentioned my preference only the fact that defending my home or myself from multiple attackers wouldn’t look anything like a Jason Statum movie, in other words gunfights typically don’t last long. When the bullets start flying people run or return fire, and if there are multiple bad-asses, I better hope I have good cover.

    That kind of sounds the opposite of paying cowboy. I understand there are plenty of hardened criminals who have been in gun fights, but the odds of me getting into a gunfight are extremely low and even lower that a barrel chested pipe-hittin gunfighter will commit a home invasion at my house. Chances are if someone breaks in a couple rounds from my 9mm pointed in the direction of the dirtbag would likely send them out the door. Maybe it’s where I live or my white privilege (joke) but I don’t get many badasses in my neighborhood. The ones that do wear/wore the Stars and Stripes on their shoulder. That’s just my thinking. If you disagree it’s a free country.

    Like I said... delusional.
     

    ozarkpugs

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    Ok, now that I've drawn you in with the generic title and open premise, I'm going to ruin your fun by subjecting you a very limiting premise:

    While most everyone "on the internet" says shotguns are hands down the best home defense weapon, how much advantage does a shotgun have over any other weapon when it comes to controlling penetration of interior walls and not hitting people you don't want to hit?

    Then take this further and pretend you're arguing with a fellow about why firing a shotgun at a target they feel they can't hit with any other weapon besides a shotgun because it's "too close/dark/dynamic and they might miss".

    No dragging any self respecting self defense professionals into this argument without first qualifying these premises.

    After it gets hashed out or supportively referenced to death I will be presenting the entire thread to whom I argue with, regardless of whether the results support my view or not.
    Throw a query out there and wow . Kinda back to original subject now . Saying a shot gun is better or worse as far as penetrating sheetrock or other walls etc .is a little misleading , what shotgun load what pistol or rifle rounds ? A 1 oz slug is going to penetrate a lot farther than a 50 grain v max a 115 6.8 bthp will go through more barrier than #4 shot. Apples to apples oranges to oranges. My discussion with misinformed shotgun toting friend . Your shotgun is as deadly as any other firearm and a better one shot stopper than most BUT if you think it is easier to hit with than a carbine or even a handgun with equal training you are mistaken. Unless you have a mighty big house there will not be a pattern with normal loads and barrels so you have to be just as accurate as with a rifle . If you make a fringe shot or miss with a shot gun the recoil will make subsequent rounds slower . To be as accurate with a shot gun you have to use sights / red dot just like a rifle If you loose use of one arm or its occupied you will not be a efficient with a shot gun ,not even an auto. With a SBR or pistol one hand accurate shooting is very possible. We all train to use proper form and sight alignment but you have to shoot around a corner or from an awkward position with out proper gun mount a shot gun will knock your teeth out ,break your nose and may take you out of the fight where as you can shoot an AR / mini or pistol from less than perfect positions and hit multiple shots without suffering damage to yourself. Shot guns have their place but master the easier weapons first.

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    Danny Abear

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    Throw a query out there and wow . Kinda back to original subject now . Saying a shot gun is better or worse as far as penetrating sheetrock or other walls etc .is a little misleading , what shotgun load what pistol or rifle rounds ? A 1 oz slug is going to penetrate a lot farther than a 50 grain v max a 115 6.8 bthp will go through more barrier than #4 shot. Apples to apples oranges to oranges. My discussion with misinformed shotgun toting friend . Your shotgun is as deadly as any other firearm and a better one shot stopper than most BUT if you think it is easier to hit with than a carbine or even a handgun with equal training you are mistaken. Unless you have a mighty big house there will not be a pattern with normal loads and barrels so you have to be just as accurate as with a rifle . If you make a fringe shot or miss with a shot gun the recoil will make subsequent rounds slower . To be as accurate with a shot gun you have to use sights / red dot just like a rifle If you loose use of one arm or its occupied you will not be a efficient with a shot gun ,not even an auto. With a SBR or pistol one hand accurate shooting is very possible. We all train to use proper form and sight alignment but you have to shoot around a corner or from an awkward position with out proper gun mount a shot gun will knock your teeth out ,break your nose and may take you out of the fight where as you can shoot an AR / mini or pistol from less than perfect positions and hit multiple shots without suffering damage to yourself. Shot guns have their place but master the easier weapons first.

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    Everyone on here is already a master of pistols and ar15s, now we gotta learn about shotgun experts
     

    DBMJR1

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    Long guns are great when you have them. But I personally don't lean a long gun against my stove as I'm cooking.

    Criminals aren't (usually) smart. It's likely that they break in when you are awake and not in your bedroom, closet, or bunker.

    How do you respond to a presumably armed intruder if you're sitting on your couch? Or cooking eggs and bacon? What if your family is with you. Can you really move yourself and everyone out of threats way AND get to your long gun in sufficient time?

    Also, still playing devils advocate here: Most dogs won't bite people unless they have been trained to do so. Most will run and hide under stress. Even the big ones that bark. Yes, they are a decent deterrent, but I don't think they can be relied on to do much more than deter someone. Dogs have motivations as well. If you give a random German Shepherd a big steak, he'll prob be like hey, I kind of like this guy.

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    I said that I prefer a shotgun to a handgun. I never said I wasn't proficient with a handgun, or disliked them. Quite the opposite. Next to me is my SW MP 2.0 9mm.




    Yep. You should always make it where the bad guy has to go through you to get to the rest of the family. I’m going to meet the threat so he can’t make his way to the back of the house where the family will be


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    It's just my wife and I. Lock her in the bedroom, and defend the hall while calling 911.

    I think y’all are overlooking a big factor in expecting the criminal to automatically flee at the sound of gunfire. A lot of these criminals are not scared of gunshots. It might be your first gunfight but probably not theirs.


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    A very interesting point.

    Which brings up another point. Body armor. What if the bad guy is wearing body armor? My shotgun is going to leave a heck of a bruise on him, but it won't take him out of the fight. Perhaps with a slug. I don't load it with slugs.
     

    MOTOR51

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    I said that I prefer a shotgun to a handgun. I never said I wasn't proficient with a handgun, or disliked them. Quite the opposite. Next to me is my SW MP 2.0 9mm.






    It's just my wife and I. Lock her in the bedroom, and defend the hall while calling 911.



    A very interesting point.

    Which brings up another point. Body armor. What if the bad guy is wearing body armor? My shotgun is going to leave a heck of a bruise on him, but it won't take him out of the fight. Perhaps with a slug. I don't load it with slugs.

    A rifle would solve the body armor problem.


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    DBW03

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    Everyone on here is already a master of pistols and ar15s, now we gotta learn about shotgun experts

    Experts? Not in the least.

    What makes you so sure you have the ability to be deadly with a shotgun over a pistol or rifle? How much shotgun training have you done? When is the last time you trained?
     

    ozarkpugs

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    The original subject was about shot guns not ARs or pistols . I may have misunderstood but I think my answer was on track with what was originally proposed . Or maybe he just pretend to be starting a debate on shot guns for defense just to see how many one sided arguments he could start ,if that be the case he succeeded . You made a statement describing likely would be the way it way it would go down , instead of pointing out that there would be exceptions and train and be prepared for the opposite others took it as an opportunity to bash your opinion . I think the problem is when someone says he is interested in having a debate what people hear is I want you to tell me how you know everything and everyone every one else is wrong .
    Everyone on here is already a master of pistols and ar15s, now we gotta learn about shotgun experts

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    DBW03

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    I said that I prefer a shotgun to a handgun.

    Why?

    You said you have one of those little shotguns, right? So that’s about 5 rounds of your favorite load. It’s also slower than an auto shotgun. How fast can you dump five rounds and reload?
     

    DBW03

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    The original subject was about shot guns not ARs or pistols . I may have misunderstood but I think my answer was on track with what was originally proposed . Or maybe he just pretend to be starting a debate on shot guns for defense just to see how many one sided arguments he could start ,if that be the case he succeeded . You made a statement describing likely would be the way it way it would go down , instead of pointing out that there would be exceptions and train and be prepared for the opposite others took it as an opportunity to bash your opinion . I think the problem is when someone says he is interested in having a debate what people hear is I want you to tell me how you know everything and everyone every one else is wrong .

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    There is data to show that shotguns are inferior for home defense for a large percentage of the shooting community. There is a minconception that they are the end all be all.

    There are many factors that go into a good defensive weapon.

    Ease of use / Manual of arms
    Capacity
    Ammunition Selection
    Ballistics
    Controllability
     

    ozarkpugs

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    . I say some might run but I'm not betting my life on it and have no delusions of scaring any one off with sounds but thought you were implying you would have an empty shotgun . I had no way of knowing if you keep your chamber loaded or not or would actually give your position away jacking a shell in I read your comment as factual not fiction I apologize .
    Yea... that was sarcasm, but your response is the funniest thing I’ve read all week. Thanks for that.



    Like I said... delusional.

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    Bangswitch

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    Yea... that was sarcasm, but your response is the funniest thing I’ve read all week. Thanks for that.



    Like I said... delusional.

    Ok I’m gonna summarize my delusional post.

    I live in a safe neighborhood.
    The odds of a home invasion are extremely low.
    Even lower in my neighborhood.
    Even lower odds it would be a gunfighter breaking-in.
    People being shot at typically either flee or fight back.
    Odds are unlikely a skilled gunfighter will be returning fire.

    Additional commentary:
    I’ve never been shot or shot at, but I have been sucker-punched (many many years ago) and I have to tell you the guy would have stomped the $h** out of me if I hadn’t had buddies there to stop the fight. I have to imagine getting caught off guard and shot might just be worse.

    Now I’m no badass either. I’m an almost decent shooter on a good day, but odds are in the super rare chance someone actually breaks into my home it’s an inexperienced kid with a drug habit looking to boost some goodies. Chances are I will have an overwhelming advantage. That’s not bragging or being a cowboy that’s basic logic. Would one of my ar’s out preform the handgun I carry every day? Maybe, but I would likely be sacrificing what little hearing I have left to protect my family from someone who likely $h**s themselves once the bullets start flying.
     
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    Magdump

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    There is data to show that shotguns are inferior for home defense for a large percentage of the shooting community. There is a minconception that they are the end all be all.

    There are many factors that go into a good defensive weapon.

    Ease of use / Manual of arms
    Capacity
    Ammunition Selection
    Ballistics
    Controllability
    I wonder if the basis of that determination is human factor or gun and round performance...
     

    ozarkpugs

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    There is data to show that shotguns are inferior for home defense for a large percentage of the shooting community. There is a minconception that they are the end all be all.

    There are many factors that go into a good defensive weapon.

    Ease of use / Manual of arms
    Capacity
    Ammunition Selection
    Ballistics
    Controllability
    Exactly , I'm not sure the op agrees with us but it is what he asked for.

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